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jliat
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Re: bots

Post by jliat » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:18 am

melkobukva wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:18 am
jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:55 am
Being Pedantic, a single track on a band camp site is firstly not "releases" plural, and technically it was not you who released it.
i have also released several tracks myself on this very forum
If you are referring to your 'work in progress' in the failed or yet to be released comp using granular synthesis then OK - i'll withdraw the no releases to what 2 or 3. But I've posted snippets of mp3s here and I don't consider them as 'releases' of my work. We can differ on this, but it remains on the web searching for melkobukva we get very little in the way of anyone active in the noise scene or music. And as I said this was in relation to my pointing out there was more 'evidence' to support you being a Russian agent than I fabricating 'Luke'. Neither of which I think is true. But in the case of your claim the results are quite significant, if you are serious in your claim "a more plausible explanation for clemongate rather than appeal to insanity.." i'll be happy to share...

in the meantime regarding deception -
melkobukva wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:18 am
I'm a gear collector posing as a musician to justify blowing 50% of family budget on knobby metal boxes. Since I've got no musical ability whatsoever, noise is pretty much the only cover story that could possibly hold up, so here I am.
Now I take this as not being serious, but maybe not, then there is perhaps we should add your being the "Tiger Rider of Apocalypse."?
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Re: bots

Post by xdugef » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:25 am

jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:29 am
xdugef wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:06 am
We have or have had a number of posters here with lots of opinions and no noise releases that weren't bots or jliat or clemon posing as somebody else as far as I know
Could you give some examples, i'd be interested.
AFAIK MKultra never claimed any releases .. there are others with far more opinions than noise releases

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Re: bots

Post by melkobukva » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:11 pm

jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:18 am
If you are referring to your 'work in progress' in the failed or yet to be released comp using granular synthesis then OK - i'll withdraw the no releases to what 2 or 3. But I've posted snippets of mp3s here and I don't consider them as 'releases' of my work.
come on i posted more than that
if you want a proper 'album', just download all my stuff and put it in a folder named 'Gulag Bar Mitzvah'
think of it as a DIY kit release
jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:18 am
We can differ on this, but it remains on the web searching for melkobukva we get very little in the way of anyone active in the noise scene or music. And as I said this was in relation to my pointing out there was more 'evidence' to support you being a Russian agent than I fabricating 'Luke'. Neither of which I think is true. But in the case of your claim the results are quite significant, if you are serious in your claim "a more plausible explanation for clemongate rather than appeal to insanity.." i'll be happy to share...
actually, it's the other way around
as your own google-fu identifies,
i made zero effort to present myself online as a noise artist, and so could not possibly be accused of trying to sell people on a fake identity
at the same time, somebody definitely went out of his way to manufacture this elaborate 'Luke' persona with a believable internet trail
i don't think it was you though, replying to a cleverbot as an art project - yes, that is something you could do, probably as a commentary on the nature of communication or something like that
making up a fake schizophrenic poetry lover - no, doesn't seem like your style tbh, you do simple things and conceptualize them in creative ways, faking people is not simple enough for this kind of work
jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:18 am
in the meantime regarding deception -
melkobukva wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:18 am
I'm a gear collector posing as a musician to justify blowing 50% of family budget on knobby metal boxes. Since I've got no musical ability whatsoever, noise is pretty much the only cover story that could possibly hold up, so here I am.
Now I take this as not being serious, but maybe not, then there is perhaps we should add your being the "Tiger Rider of Apocalypse."?
i dont see any contradiction between these two self-descriptions
a tiger-riding gear-collecting south park centrist forum nazi secret agent of Russian Republic sounds good enough to me :smokin:

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Re: bots

Post by clemonz » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:26 pm

i think it's much more likely that melkobukva works for FSB than i'm JLIAT
internet trail
and faked meeting with tim? how deep in this rabbit hole
so you're going to have me murdered for not being your bf :lmao:

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Re: bots

Post by cleverbot » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:31 pm

clemonz wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:26 pm
i think it's much more likely that melkobukva works for FSB than i'm JLIAT
internet trail
and faked meeting with tim? how deep in this rabbit hole

Image
https://www.cleverbot.com/

I am not your ex lover or have any affiliations to the mafia, swedish or otherwise

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Re: bots

Post by jliat » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:41 pm

xdugef wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:25 am
jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:29 am
xdugef wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:06 am
We have or have had a number of posters here with lots of opinions and no noise releases that weren't bots or jliat or clemon posing as somebody else as far as I know
Could you give some examples, i'd be interested.
AFAIK MKultra never claimed any releases .. there are others with far more opinions than noise releases
That's not some examples and LOL, he's deleted many of his posts, 2756 of them in which it appears he discussed noise gear with some knowledge. But that yet again is not my point, as I said in my spoof persona that's fooled you for over a decade "i think it's much more likely that melkobukva works for FSB than i'm JLIAT"

And yet again to be clear i'm saying i'm neither Clemon and melkobukva is not working for the FSB. His argument was circular, and wrong. But if you want to sign up to his idea as being "however, some older noisicians with academic backgrounds have been known to invest substantial amounts of time and effort into seemingly nonsensical activities as part of their creative & philosophical work
personally, i find it a more plausible explanation for clemongate rather than appeal to insanity "

Feel free to do so.
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Re: bots

Post by jliat » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:11 pm

melkobukva wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:11 pm
jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:18 am
If you are referring to your 'work in progress' in the failed or yet to be released comp using granular synthesis then OK - i'll withdraw the no releases to what 2 or 3. But I've posted snippets of mp3s here and I don't consider them as 'releases' of my work.
come on i posted more than that
if you want a proper 'album', just download all my stuff and put it in a folder named 'Gulag Bar Mitzvah'
think of it as a DIY kit release
As I said I don't think posting snippets here to be "releases" - you do it seems. If you want to release something at minimum create your own bandcamp / soundcloud page, even then some reviewers will probably ignore this as a release due to the fact that anyone and everyone can do this. Vital for instance. I'ts as daft as saying you work in the movies because you've posted at video of your cat on youtube.
melkobukva wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:11 pm
jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:18 am
We can differ on this, but it remains on the web searching for melkobukva we get very little in the way of anyone active in the noise scene or music. And as I said this was in relation to my pointing out there was more 'evidence' to support you being a Russian agent than I fabricating 'Luke'. Neither of which I think is true. But in the case of your claim the results are quite significant, if you are serious in your claim "a more plausible explanation for clemongate rather than appeal to insanity.." i'll be happy to share...
actually, it's the other way around
as your own google-fu identifies,
i made zero effort to present myself online as a noise artist,
You can say you've released many online noise pieces and then you've made zero effort? When in fact you posted examples of your work in progress.
melkobukva wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:11 pm
and so could not possibly be accused of trying to sell people on a fake identity
at the same time, somebody definitely went out of his way to manufacture this elaborate 'Luke' persona with a believable internet trail
If you believe this then that person has for one been making Adrian look a fool for over a decade. Again I disagree.
melkobukva wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:11 pm

i don't think it was you though, replying to a cleverbot as an art project - yes, that is something you could do, probably as a commentary on the nature of communication or something like that
making up a fake schizophrenic poetry lover - no, doesn't seem like your style tbh, you do simple things and conceptualize them in creative ways, faking people is not simple enough for this kind of work
So now you are saying its not me fabricating 'Luke'? but 'some older noisician with academic background' :roll: OK so now you've answered your own question "yeah, but how do we know you didn't just make up this elaborate "Luke" online persona
maybe as an art project" - you know because ", doesn't seem like your style tbh, ". TBH? and in your original post you implied this 'older noisician with academic background' was likely to be JLIAT. " moreover i could not help but notice that jliat's posting has become more sparce - coincidentally? - at the exactly same time this "Luke" fellow showed up" TBH I think you are trolling given the contradictions - plural. But fun.
melkobukva wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:11 pm

jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:18 am
in the meantime regarding deception -
melkobukva wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:18 am
I'm a gear collector posing as a musician to justify blowing 50% of family budget on knobby metal boxes. Since I've got no musical ability whatsoever, noise is pretty much the only cover story that could possibly hold up, so here I am.
Now I take this as not being serious, but maybe not, then there is perhaps we should add your being the "Tiger Rider of Apocalypse."?
i dont see any contradiction between these two self-descriptions
a tiger-riding gear-collecting south park centrist forum nazi secret agent of Russian Republic sounds good enough to me :smokin:
Neither do I - both imply intent to deceive. Both are not true TBH. :shock:
https://soundcloud.com/jliat/sets/jliat ... variations
https://soundcloud.com/jliat/sets/jliat ... tions-from
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Re: bots

Post by xdugef » Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:02 am

jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:41 pm
xdugef wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:25 am
jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:29 am


Could you give some examples, i'd be interested.
AFAIK MKultra never claimed any releases .. there are others with far more opinions than noise releases
That's not some examples and LOL, he's deleted many of his posts, 2756 of them in which it appears he discussed noise gear with some knowledge. But that yet again is not my point, as I said in my spoof persona that's fooled you for over a decade "i think it's much more likely that melkobukva works for FSB than i'm JLIAT"
I'm not actually following your argument. I understand it .. I'm just not actually participating in it that way. MKultra was just an example of NG users who posted alot on a noise board but never posted any noise. AFAIK the reason why he never did and why he deleted all his posts was because he was concerned about his future job prospects.. sounds familiar but he had the tenacity to actually go through all his posts and delete them unlike some people. What didn't really make sense was that some of them weren't controversial and are cached on sites like the way back machine or elsewhere or quoted in other users responses here. I think at some point it just became a thing for him to accomplish.

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Re: bots

Post by jliat » Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:16 am

xdugef wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:02 am
jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:41 pm
xdugef wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:25 am


AFAIK MKultra never claimed any releases .. there are others with far more opinions than noise releases
That's not some examples and LOL, he's deleted many of his posts, 2756 of them in which it appears he discussed noise gear with some knowledge. But that yet again is not my point, as I said in my spoof persona that's fooled you for over a decade "i think it's much more likely that melkobukva works for FSB than i'm JLIAT"
I'm not actually following your argument. I understand it .. I'm just not actually participating in it that way. MKultra was just an example of NG users who posted alot on a noise board but never posted any noise. AFAIK the reason why he never did and why he deleted all his posts was because he was concerned about his future job prospects.. sounds familiar but he had the tenacity to actually go through all his posts and delete them unlike some people. What didn't really make sense was that some of them weren't controversial and are cached on sites like the way back machine or elsewhere or quoted in other users responses here. I think at some point it just became a thing for him to accomplish.
Sure I expect you can find a number of NG users who never posted any noise, there seems thousands who only ever made a few and so they would count. My point was to argue there was more "evidence" (actually true or not! - so on this is the current expression "My Bad"???)) to support the idea of melkobukva working for FSB than Luke being a JLIAT artwork. - and you follow the example it seems. Luke had similar concerns about job prospects, but I cant really see his posts being a problem. Maybe different in the USA esp if MKultra wanted to go into politics :roll: but then doing odd / bad things hasn't stopped others making a success of it. Some companies actually like its employees not to be MR ? Ms normal. Not that it follows posters here are abnormal - of course :eek:

Anyway melkobukva now seems to think the persona of 'Luke' was created by someone other than me, so that's OK. I just couldnt bare --- no its bear? to take the credit.
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Re: bots

Post by xdugef » Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:52 am

jliat wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:16 am
My point was to argue there was more "evidence" (actually true or not! - so on this is the current expression "My Bad"???)) to support the idea of melkobukva working for FSB than Luke being a JLIAT artwork. - and you follow the example it seems. Luke had similar concerns about job prospects, but I cant really see his posts being a problem. Maybe different in the USA esp if MKultra wanted to go into politics :roll: but then doing odd / bad things hasn't stopped others making a success of it. Some companies actually like its employees not to be MR ? Ms normal. Not that it follows posters here are abnormal - of course :eek:

Anyway melkobukva now seems to think the persona of 'Luke' was created by someone other than me, so that's OK. I just couldnt bare --- no its bear? to take the credit.
Ugh well it's all a red herring thrown out by daric.. anyway I've met you in person but not clemon or melko so...

Heh I was going to make a comment about politics.. I think in general those things could matter for a would be politician the problem with Trump is that for his supporters it doesn't matter.. he either speaks to some issue that please them (to the degree were lying about it is almost as good as doing it) and or they are also bigots and or even if they are actually getting fucked over by Trump and the GOP that the thought of sticking it to the lefties somehow makes it worth it to blow up the national debt giving tax breaks to billionaires while cutting social services cause as well all know anything with the word social in it is socialism and the same thing as hitler.

The other concern Luke seemed to have is that it's clear he has talked extensively about this forum with his therapist and to such a degree that he had promised to not obsess over it and was afraid that the therapist would find out that he was still obsessing over it.

This place I worked at in the early 90's did music videos and I was there late one night and answered the phone. The voice on the other end was clearly and adult pretending to be a small child and asking "how much to make a music videoh?" I talked to them for a bit and eventually hang up. The next day I mentioned it to a few people at work and they said it was probably Diamanda Galas who was friends with one of my coworkers and is apparently something of a prankster.

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Re: bots

Post by melkobukva » Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:56 am

jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:11 pm
As I said I don't think posting snippets here to be "releases" - you do it seems. If you want to release something at minimum create your own bandcamp / soundcloud page, even then some reviewers will probably ignore this as a release due to the fact that anyone and everyone can do this. Vital for instance. I'ts as daft as saying you work in the movies because you've posted at video of your cat on youtube.
all it demostrates is that you're being retrograde and dogmatic regardig releases
as if XX century music business coventions are some sort of holy commandments set in stone
while i'm being forward thinking and creative with my modular diy kit release approach (i don't take any credit though, since KLF already did that long ago)
if you want to do a Vital review, just burn my tracks to a CD-R, et voila - you have a convenional "release" as appropriate for retrograde music industry geezers
i will even supply the cover art
jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:11 pm
You can say you've released many online noise pieces and then you've made zero effort? When in fact you posted examples of your work in progress.
what's the deal with this work in progress nonsense
first, i have also posted finished tracks, and i pointed that out already
second, who says tracks are not allowed to progress over time and only have the right to exist as "finished" static cadavers of creativity
this is utter bullcrap even by XX century standards

as for the former part, you have just admitted that your argumentation is self-contradictory
either there is evidence that i'm a noise artist or there isn't, yet you claim both at the same time
jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:11 pm
If you believe this then that person has for one been making Adrian look a fool for over a decade. Again I disagree.
right now you're trying to make me look like a fool by misrepresenting the nature of my releases,
you could also make adrian look like a fool by misrepresenting yourself as luke, i don't know
or maybe that was tim who also claims to have met 'Luke' irl, so he's likely in cahoots with whomever is behind this
jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:11 pm
So now you are saying its not me fabricating 'Luke'?
as an art project, no
to make other people look like fools, i wouldn't rule this out, see above
jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:18 am
Neither do I - both imply intent to deceive. Both are not true TBH. :shock:
if both are not true, then no intent to decieve is in fact implied :wave:

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Re: bots

Post by timdrage » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:23 am

clemonz wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:29 am
plus e.g. tim has met me
Yep can confirm Luke exists (there's photographic evidence somewhere of us both being in the same place but I won't find it for a russian troll) and I have lots of 2nd/3rd hand evidence that Jliat is also a real and separate human being :)
Last edited by timdrage on Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: bots

Post by timdrage » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:34 am

amazing forum, a bot which posts completely incoherent markov chain nonsense autoreplies has passed the turing test for at least 2 members, and a 'russian' noise dude insists that Clemon is a conspiracy fabricated by Jliat and myself. :D come on, we've spent enough time replying to Luke's posts, it would be a full time job if we were also writing them :D

WAKE UP SHEOPLE
to make other people look like fools,
redundant on this forum tho

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Re: bots

Post by xdugef » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:44 am

timdrage wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:34 am
amazing forum, a bot which posts completely incoherent markov chain nonsense autoreplies has passed the turing test for at least 2 members
Heheh

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Re: bots

Post by jliat » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:44 am

melkobukva wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:56 am
jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:11 pm
As I said I don't think posting snippets here to be "releases" - you do it seems. If you want to release something at minimum create your own bandcamp / soundcloud page, even then some reviewers will probably ignore this as a release due to the fact that anyone and everyone can do this. Vital for instance. I'ts as daft as saying you work in the movies because you've posted at video of your cat on youtube.
all it demostrates is that you're being retrograde and dogmatic regardig releases
as if XX century music business coventions are some sort of holy commandments set in stone
Not me - Vital. I'm presently only using Sound Cloud.
melkobukva wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:56 am
while i'm being forward thinking and creative with my modular diy kit release approach (i don't take any credit though, since KLF already did that long ago)
How can you be forward thinking and creative if you are doing something the KLF did long ago. Yet another contradiction. So you are copying The KLF - who split in 1992, i'm using sound cloud founded in 2007, that makes you certainly retrograde surely?
melkobukva wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:56 am
if you want to do a Vital review, just burn my tracks to a CD-R, et voila - you have a convenional "release" as appropriate for retrograde music industry geezers
Not my decision. But if you want either a physical (retrograde - the cassette and vinyl I think are currently more trendy than online releases) you either self-release, make up a label or get a label to release your work for you. Something you're yet to do unless you count the comp. Either way if you want that reviewed its up to you or someone else to promote and find a reviewer. I do the occasional noise review for Vital, but as I say what is reviewed and by who is not my decision.
melkobukva wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:56 am
i will even supply the cover art
As I said - find a label - here is one https://forum.noiseguide.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20159
melkobukva wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:56 am
jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:11 pm
You can say you've released many online noise pieces and then you've made zero effort? When in fact you posted examples of your work in progress.
what's the deal with this work in progress nonsense
first, i have also posted finished tracks, and i pointed that out already
second, who says tracks are not allowed to progress over time and only have the right to exist as "finished" static cadavers of creativity
this is utter bullcrap even by XX century standards
I thought you posted some in the failed / yet to happen granular comp?
melkobukva wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:56 am
A glimpse of my most recent mixing failure
And great you have finished tracks, but not released on the Granular Synth Comp. Who says... & " only have the right to exist as "finished"" not me. Sure its bullcrap, why are you posting it. I've been to several performances of Schubert's Symphony No. 8... So " only have the right to exist as "finished"" Crap by XIX century standards.
melkobukva wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:56 am
as for the former part, you have just admitted that your argumentation is self-contradictory
either there is evidence that i'm a noise artist or there isn't, yet you claim both at the same time
If there is both there is a contradiction, and there is, your noise "releases" and you claim
melkobukva wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:56 am
I'm a gear collector posing as a musician to justify blowing 50% of family budget on knobby metal boxes. Since I've got no musical ability whatsoever, noise is pretty much the only cover story that could possibly hold up, so here I am.

A false story intended to deceive or mislead: = cover story
melkobukva wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:56 am
jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:11 pm
If you believe this then that person has for one been making Adrian look a fool for over a decade. Again I disagree.
right now you're trying to make me look like a fool by misrepresenting the nature of my releases,
Right now i'm saying you certainly haven't made releases - plural. So looking the fool doesn't come into my argument here. Which was if you remember your "plausible explanation" that 'Luke' was an art project of my invention, something which you've now changed to "doesn't seem like your style tbh," but firmed up the "plausible explanation" into a "somebody definitely went out of his way to manufacture this elaborate 'Luke' persona with a believable internet trail" - believe that to be true if you wish despite Tim saying otherwise, and the evidence going back many years of Luke being a real person. But I'm not interested in arguing that.
melkobukva wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:56 am

you could also make adrian look like a fool by misrepresenting yourself as luke, i don't know
or maybe that was tim who also claims to have met 'Luke' irl, so he's likely in cahoots with whomever is behind this
Or the other alternative, Luke is a real person.
melkobukva wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:56 am
jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:11 pm
So now you are saying its not me fabricating 'Luke'?
as an art project, no
to make other people look like fools, i wouldn't rule this out, see above
The only thing you've now ruled out is the possibility that Luke is a real person. ""somebody definitely went out of his way to manufacture this elaborate 'Luke' persona with a believable internet trail"
melkobukva wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:56 am
jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:18 am
Neither do I - both imply intent to deceive. Both are not true TBH. :shock:
if both are not true, then no intent to decieve is in fact implied :wave:
How does this follow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mincemeat A very famous example of deception by un-truth. :wave: :wave:
https://soundcloud.com/jliat/sets/jliat ... variations
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"The most irrational thing to do is to make something worthless, with no political emotional or entertaining purpose."

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