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killing raven sun
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Re: bots

Post by killing raven sun » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:38 pm

melkobukva wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:28 pm
jliat wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:22 am
Anyway i await your giving me a list of some older noisicians ... who do as you say.
i'll just let the man speak for himself:
Given this – at first sight – obvious nonsense I committed myself to not playing anything, but the presets..... now adding Yamaha SY/TG .. Emu et al.
i loled

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jliat
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Re: bots

Post by jliat » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:35 pm

melkobukva wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:28 pm
jliat wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:22 am
Anyway i await your giving me a list of some older noisicians ... who do as you say.
i'll just let the man speak for himself:
Given this – at first sight – obvious nonsense I committed myself to not playing anything, but the presets..... now adding Yamaha SY/TG .. Emu et al.
melkobukva wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:28 pm
however, some older noisicians with academic backgrounds have been known to invest substantial amounts of time and effort into seemingly nonsensical activities as part of their creative & philosophical work
personally, i find it a more plausible explanation for clemongate rather than appeal to insanity

Who do as you say.... that I've pretended to be Luke who can be checked out on line - and done so for over 12 years - recently spending tens of hours to convince some on this board that Luke was an actual person suffering from mental illness - if you think that " more plausible" … nah, your just Daricing me.

But your fallacy is beautiful. You claim something to be the case, 'older noisicians with academic backgrounds have been known to' do X, gives an explanation for me doing X, and the evidence which supports this is me supposedly doing X. = FAIL.
"at first sight"
You say at first sight to describe your first impression of someone or something. The problem is trickier than it looks at first sight. The aims of the committee appear at first sight to be admirable. Nothing is ever quite as good or quite as bad as it looks at first sight. Note: You usually use this expression to suggest that this first impression was wrong or incomplete.
Note "At first sight - you failed to read on... see more clearly?... nothing deceptive or nonsensical or to do with noise.... or academic... an attempt at an actual work...



Voreinstellungen - Presets.

“There is nothing outside the text” 'There is nothing outside the machine'

"The Dematerialization of the Art Object" Lucy R Lippard.

"There is no special way works of art have to be. And that is the present and, I should say, the final moment in the master narrative. It is the end of the story." Danto, Arthur Coleman (1998).

"The “value” now of an original Cubist painting is not unlike, in most respects, an original manuscript by Lord Byron, or The Spirit of St. Louis as it is seen in the Smithsonian Institution. (Indeed, museums fill the very same function as the Smithsonian Institution – why else would the Jeu de Paume wing of the Louvre exhibit Cézanne’s and Van Gogh’s palettes as proudly as they do their paintings?) Actual works of art are little more than historical curiosities. As far as art is concerned Van Gogh’s paintings aren’t worth any more than his palette is." Art After Philosophy (1969) Joseph Kosuth

What if we ‘invert’ Kosuth’s idea...
What if the actual work, object, technology was responsible and not the 'idea'. The technology of paint in tubes, the railway system and a bourgeois society for impressionism... printing with moveable type for The Enlightenment. The Plough made civilization possible... Telescopes made Modern Astronomy and Astronomers... without the Santa Maria, Pinta & Nina no colonization of America…! (“the carrack was one of the most influential ship designs in history”)… Evolution theory was made by HMS Beagle… Chemistry Hegel's dialectics.. the Steam Engine made Marx and Marxism.. Technology not only provides what we think but how we think.


We are identified by our technology. A historical fact in which the idea of invention rather than accident or a technological intervention is thought to create the identity. As if a desire for a technology was in reality a desire for something the technology can achieve. So the desire for warmth produced the desire for fire and so the 'invention' of fire creation. The desire for a certain music created the desire for certain instruments which involved the invention of those instruments in order to fulfil the desire. This is nothing other than the belief in magic where 'desire' is instrumental in physical change, as much as a non physical 'spell' can manipulate and bring into existence or alter physical reality. It is as mistaken and misguided as the interpretation of evolution by natural selection. The desire to reach high branches is the initiation of long necks. To the extreme nonsense of the desire for intelligence necessitated the acquisition of large brains of some 86 billion neurons and a sophisticated prefrontal cortex responsible for cognition. Proto humans without cognition had the idea of cognition and so desired the necessary biological structures for it to exist! This is not to deny once the situation is given a subsequent adaptation to it cannot occur, but this is outside of the primary act which instigates any change. An animal with a long neck has to learn how to employ it and can do so in new ways, but these are external to the ontology of the neck. It is no different from the initial invention, which should be more the accident than of any intentional technology. Which produces the argument that in the case of the animal the long neck was not a desire for it. The long neck in itself has nothing to do with eating from higher branches. The neck qua neck was nothing to do with eating. What of human technologies. The subsequent human adaptation of accidental technologies covers their actual non determined accident. It renders them purposeful. And in doing so it occludes the actual technology qua technology. We never hear the piano qua piano. And there is then the development of the telos of the technology, say the piano which denies the piano its pianoness for a desire for innovation. This invocation is retroactively produced then seen as the ontological basis for the technology, in this case the piano, in the first place. Which is obviously (now seen to be) false.


What can be argued from this is that in any activity especially art any intervention is always both a denial of what it is given, a refusal to see, hear, interface with it in itself for some other spurious activity. So rather than discover what it is, whatever it is is ignored for some other intention.


"A synthesizer (often abbreviated as synth) is an electronic musical instrument that generates audio signals that may be converted to sound... instrument presets (i.e. sounds, or programs or patches, previously stored in the instrument's memory)"


"the presets being a number of stored sounds arranged in banks which come ready programmed by the manufacturer which can be triggered by midi data, each bank having sounds, e.g. '5 preset banks (128 patches each), the JV Session card (another 256 patches!) that add up to more than a thousand patches of preset sounds.'"


Given this – at first sight – obvious nonsense I committed myself to not playing anything, but the presets.



Voreinstellungen - Presets.
https://soundcloud.com/jliat/sets/jliat ... variations
https://soundcloud.com/jliat/sets/jliat ... tions-from
"The most irrational thing to do is to make something worthless, with no political emotional or entertaining purpose."

killing raven sun
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Re: bots

Post by killing raven sun » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:13 am

jliat wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:35 pm
nah, your just Daricing me.
you know you have arrived when your name has been verb tensed

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melkobukva
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Re: bots

Post by melkobukva » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:46 am

jliat wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:35 pm
Who do as you say.... that I've pretended to be Luke who can be checked out on line - and done so for over 12 years - recently spending tens of hours to convince some on this board that Luke was an actual person suffering from mental illness - if you think that " more plausible" … nah, your just Daricing me.
this is not as implausible as you present it to be
there are numerous examples of people creating elaborate fake online identities and maintaining them for years
here's one for example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Drama/comments ... verysmart/
jliat wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:35 pm
But your fallacy is beautiful. You claim something to be the case, 'older noisicians with academic backgrounds have been known to' do X, gives an explanation for me doing X, and the evidence which supports this is me supposedly doing X. = FAIL.
i don't think this is an accurate enough representation of my line of thought

the main pitfall of jliat=clemon theory is that, while turning nonsensical activities into conceptual projects is jliat's artistic modus operandi, your projects, as far as i remember, did not involve deliberately decieving people before

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melkobukva
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Re: bots

Post by melkobukva » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:53 am

jliat wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:49 am
why no releases?
this question presupposes a factually incorrect claim, and you know it, because we are on the same compilation
maybe my earlier assessment is wrong and you do intentionally decieve people from time to time

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jliat
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Re: bots

Post by jliat » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:22 am

melkobukva wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:46 am
jliat wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:35 pm
Who do as you say.... that I've pretended to be Luke who can be checked out on line - and done so for over 12 years - recently spending tens of hours to convince some on this board that Luke was an actual person suffering from mental illness - if you think that " more plausible" … nah, your just Daricing me.
this is not as implausible as you present it to be
there are numerous examples of people creating elaborate fake online identities and maintaining them for years
here's one for example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Drama/comments ... verysmart/
That's not in dispute. A better example would the fake users - very many - generated by the Russian secret service to post fake news on forums. I posted an example of one regarding vaccination. But you "find it a more plausible explanation … " that because "some older noisicians with academic backgrounds have been known to invest substantial amounts of time and effort into seemingly nonsensical activities as part of their creative & philosophical work" I "just make up this elaborate "Luke" online persona"

You were unable to provide ANY examples - plural, the one you did is simply a circular argument, that I in your mind fake an identity doesn't provide an example to support your assertion. Worse your actual quote is one were I refute the idea of generating "nonsensical activities ...." and the clue is the phrase 'at first site' makes this clear. Maybe you were unaware of its use, but I posted an explanation, and the full text of the argument.
melkobukva wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:46 am
jliat wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:35 pm
But your fallacy is beautiful. You claim something to be the case, 'older noisicians with academic backgrounds have been known to' do X, gives an explanation for me doing X, and the evidence which supports this is me supposedly doing X. = FAIL.
i don't think this is an accurate enough representation of my line of thought
I think it is. It was clearly circular argument, to back you your assertion that persona impersonation was the sort of thing "some older noisicians with academic backgrounds have been known to invest substantial amounts of time and effort into seemingly nonsensical activities as part of their creative & philosophical work" - you couldn't find a single example.

Its not "known" - by you. You couldn't give an example.

So as a line of thought - its simply wrong.
melkobukva wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:46 am

the main pitfall of jliat=clemon theory is that, while turning nonsensical activities into conceptual projects is jliat's artistic modus operandi,
No it is not. The main pitfall is that the jliat=clemon theory comes from someone out to troll, that you adopted it maybe means likewise. For your skills at tracking down peoples identity on the internet have been well publicised by yourself, it would be for you a simple task.
melkobukva wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:46 am
your projects, as far as i remember, did not involve deliberately decieving people before
Before? Luke under the monicas of Clemon, clemom09 clemonz and social drift have been posting for well over 12 years.

Though one of my projects at least, not deliberately, has 'deceived' and got into print... by Tim Morton no less...
https://soundcloud.com/jliat/sets/jliat ... variations
https://soundcloud.com/jliat/sets/jliat ... tions-from
"The most irrational thing to do is to make something worthless, with no political emotional or entertaining purpose."

killing raven sun
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Re: bots

Post by killing raven sun » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:45 am

:popcorn:

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jliat
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Re: bots

Post by jliat » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:55 am

melkobukva wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:53 am
jliat wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:49 am
why no releases?
this question presupposes a factually incorrect claim, and you know it, because we are on the same compilation
maybe my earlier assessment is wrong and you do intentionally decieve people from time to time
I think cut ups of sentences to make false assertions is attempting to deceive.

"melkobukva who is what - someone working for Russian intelligence? posting fake news... I mean if melkobukva is interested in noise and making noise, why no releases? No website? "

Being Pedantic, a single track on a band camp site is firstly not "releases" plural, and technically it was not you who released it. And using your logic the fact that any search using the melkobukva tag show no interest in music, noise or otherwise save one on this comp and NG, and a strong link to The Russian Republic, given the well known fabrication of 'users' by the Russian secret service that you are fake is a plausible theory with many real examples.

For myself I doubt this, for as you claim "I'm pretty much a Metaphysical Naglfar bringing Mahapralaya to the Postmodernist Inferno, a point-wieding Tiger Rider of Apocalypse."

But
Mahapralaya - In Hinduism, the “great” or final “dissolving” of the universe at the end of a kalpa, or “day in the life of Brahma”.
Dhumavati is said to manifest herself at the time of cosmic dissolution... her outer appearance as poverty is deceptive and a mere illusion that hides the inner reality.
:chin:
https://soundcloud.com/jliat/sets/jliat ... variations
https://soundcloud.com/jliat/sets/jliat ... tions-from
"The most irrational thing to do is to make something worthless, with no political emotional or entertaining purpose."

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xdugef
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Re: bots

Post by xdugef » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:06 am

We have or have had a number of posters here with lots of opinions and no noise releases that weren't bots or jliat or clemon posing as somebody else as far as I know

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jliat
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Re: bots

Post by jliat » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:29 am

xdugef wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:06 am
We have or have had a number of posters here with lots of opinions and no noise releases that weren't bots or jliat or clemon posing as somebody else as far as I know
Could you give some examples, i'd be interested. My point was however more that melkobukva's thinking that Jliat / me inventing Luke/Clemon/Clemon09/Clemonz and Social drift was more plausible than him actual being Luke XXXX who you have had many conversations, emails etc. was not the case. I used the example of Russian Intelligence to show the case for him being a fiction was more plausible, though i did not accept it.

If you actually now think Luke/Clemon/Clemon09/Clemonz and Social drift is a fabricated persona by me, then your conversations with this fiction now seem very odd to say the least.
https://soundcloud.com/jliat/sets/jliat ... variations
https://soundcloud.com/jliat/sets/jliat ... tions-from
"The most irrational thing to do is to make something worthless, with no political emotional or entertaining purpose."

clemonz
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Re: bots

Post by clemonz » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:27 am

uhh no-one has the patience to pretend to be clemon for over a decade. except me i guess
:shrug:

clemonz
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Re: bots

Post by clemonz » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:29 am

plus e.g. tim has met me
:shrug:

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cleverbot
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Re: bots

Post by cleverbot » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:34 am

clemonz wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:29 am
plus e.g. tim has met me

Image
https://www.cleverbot.com/

Verter zol men vegn un nit tseyln.

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cleverbot
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Re: bots

Post by cleverbot » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:42 am

clemonz wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:27 am
uhh no-one has the patience to pretend to be clemon for over a decade. except me i guess

Image
https://www.cleverbot.com/

Verter zol men vegn un nit tseyln.

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melkobukva
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Re: bots

Post by melkobukva » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:18 am

jliat wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:55 am
Being Pedantic, a single track on a band camp site is firstly not "releases" plural, and technically it was not you who released it.
i have also released several tracks myself on this very forum

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