Noise lamps

Talk about music gear for noise music

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timdrage
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Noise lamps

Post by timdrage » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:11 am

spin-off thread

actually i just remembered an early noise recording I made as a kid, VHS camcorder mic amplifying the springs of an anglepoise lamp, feeding back thru the TV speaker :D

killing raven sun
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Re: Noise lamps

Post by killing raven sun » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:02 am

oh shit, i have made lots of lamps, no pictures of any, but i started early, i had an affinity for bases that were too heavy to knock over, train track rails and giant electric tower bolts were easy to come by, i also made huge and very dangerous fans, not sure why

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Re: Noise lamps

Post by xdugef » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:50 am

I used to have a superstition about lamps on stage at noise shows.. I guess the key element was I played a show in OKC which had been plagued with issue running up to it in part because one of the acts was ctephin and previously unbeknownst to me was how much of a shit head StF was.. one of the other shows did not happen because when the booker found out StF was one of the acts on the bill he said yeah that guy stole from all my friends back in the day.. fuck that guy. I said okay we'll cut him from the bill and they still refused to do the show. Anyway they brought a lamp.. like the kind you might find in granny's living room .. afterwards when I was helping them unload their car at their shitty apartment complex the lamp literally jumped out of the back of their car and smashed itself all over the pavement. The End.

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melkobukva
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Re: Noise lamps

Post by melkobukva » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:42 am

Sylvia Massy has a pretty nice lamp.


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Re: Noise lamps

Post by FireAlarmPoet » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:59 pm

chochambeau, your table is ready...
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Re: Noise lamps

Post by crochambeau » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:29 pm

FireAlarmPoet wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:59 pm
chochambeau, your table is ready...
:lol:

I don't know if that recent purchases lamp housing yet qualifies.

I think dying ballast fluorescent tubes are my first run choice in a noise lamp. Strobes are louder, and I suppose could be triggered from a random source.

Is an arc a lamp?

Beyond that, the only sound I get from lamps is annoying buzzing.

Using the filament as a variable resistor is old hat, but I don't know of anyone driving it with DC and simply impeding more AC while hot. Probably experiments for another day.

I have a bunch of goofy lamps, but they're not incredibly accessible at the moment. I'll try and remember to take pictures and dig up this thread when I can.

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Re: Noise lamps

Post by FireAlarmPoet » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:39 pm

I was actually hoping you could explain what's going on in that video, namely:

-How is this wired? She explains it briefly but I can't visualize how the process works at all.
-Is the lightbulb somehow getting power from the output of the amplifier(s?)?
-She says the output is going through the bulb somehow: how does a lightbulb even have anything remotely resembling an 'input?'
-Is the lightbulb already on, and if so, what's powering it?
-Is the lightbulb in series with the overal setup; like if I put a resistor in between a cable and the mixer it was intended to go into, is the bulb sort of like the resistor in my example?
-Is the lightbulb just for show or does it actually change the sound that is ultimately recorded, and if so, how?
-Does this only work in a setup with a lot of power being pumped out? My guess is that the only reason the lightbulb is turning on at all is becuase the amplifier(s?) are probably supplying the necessary wattage that would've otherwise been used to push speakers.
-How did anyone even think to do this?
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Re: Noise lamps

Post by timdrage » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:09 am

Yeah the bulb is being powered by the amp, the reason they are going from a guitar amp to a power amp is presumably because the guitar preamp makes the guitar sound good and the power amp has enough power to light the bulb

would work will less powerful amps i guess but maybe less bright, i imagine a small filament bulb would easily light up from any little amp

don't really get what's happening sound-wise tho, i hear some kind of 'electricity crackle' at some points but mostly it sounds just drowned out by ordnniary sound fgrom the guitar amp. would like to see/hear this with the bulb alone

I know lots of people who work with strobes, flickering lights etc with noise, will post some

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Re: Noise lamps

Post by timdrage » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:14 am

Does a strobe light count as a 'lamp'? Leafed thru the manual for Ryan's one when he got it. It's 3u rack sized, has instructions to CHAIN 12 OF THEM and has a setting called the 'BRAIN MELTER" :D



Jordan fam are big on flickering lights: Luke has them wired up to something i don't understand involving powering incandescent builbs with a fluorescent starter and an audio amp:


just realised I was at both of these :D

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Re: Noise lamps

Post by xdugef » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:25 am

What about Anal amps? Cause I have one of those.

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Re: Noise lamps

Post by crochambeau » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:47 am

FireAlarmPoet wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:39 pm
I was actually hoping you could explain what's going on in that video
Ahh, I see. I missed the technical question context. hahahaha
FireAlarmPoet wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:39 pm
-How is this wired? She explains it briefly but I can't visualize how the process works at all.
-Is the lightbulb somehow getting power from the output of the amplifier(s?)?
-She says the output is going through the bulb somehow: how does a lightbulb even have anything remotely resembling an 'input?'
-Is the lightbulb already on, and if so, what's powering it?
-Is the lightbulb in series with the overal setup; like if I put a resistor in between a cable and the mixer it was intended to go into, is the bulb sort of like the resistor in my example?
-Is the lightbulb just for show or does it actually change the sound that is ultimately recorded, and if so, how?
-Does this only work in a setup with a lot of power being pumped out? My guess is that the only reason the lightbulb is turning on at all is becuase the amplifier(s?) are probably supplying the necessary wattage that would've otherwise been used to push speakers.
-How did anyone even think to do this?
A lot of your questions are in essence answering previous questions, so instead of breaking them apart I'm going to treat that as a single question and offer an answer in what may regrettably be a somewhat obtuse manner. Behold:

Any light bulb or illumination source is typically going to be a two connection part, like a resistor. The Edison base on our typical light bulbs could be considered as having an input at the nipple and an output at the threads. Polarity is unimportant though, as this is an AC powered device. For now, just think of any light bulb as being a two leg part with inherent electrical properties (resistance, capacitance, inductance) that differentiate it from bare wire.

Let us consider at first an incandescent light bulb. Consider a 40 watt lightbulb powered from a 120 volt wall socket. Rudimentary calculations stipulate that an object producing 40 watts from a 120 volt source is drawing 0.333 amps. Furthermore, if you apply ohms law you can calculate that the resistance inside the 40 watt light bulb must be 360 ohms to restrict the current to a third of an amp at 120 volts.

However, if you go pick up a 40 watt incandescent light bulb and actually MEASURE the fucking thing you'll wind up seeing a much lower resistance (I just measured one at 25 ohms). 25 ohms across 120 volts will produce 576 watts. What gives?

The incandescent light bulb has a positive temperature coefficient. As the filament starts to heat up, the resistance of the filament path increases. Because of this feature, incandescent light bulbs have been used in circuits and as speaker protection (typically in a series connection with a high frequency horn or driver) for ages. Many, many decades, close to if not 100 years. I would venture a guess that the awareness of this application of a light bulb is what prompted their application, but I've never met or worked with any of these people so that's pure speculation.

Anyway. Different light bulb types are going to act on a signal in a different manner, but practically ALL of them will offer enough of an AC impedance to be a "safe" load for an amplifier.

Fluorescent bulbs could be considered to have a *negative* temperature coefficient (NTC), in that before they fire the inert gas inside the tube is a high impedance path, and it takes a pre-heat to ionize that gas so it will sustain a current path at the paltry 120 volts. Since the tube has NTC there is a ballast resistor or coil to prevent run-away (over current that will raise temperature that will allow more current resulting in a destructive feedback loop).

What does this mean to sound? It means there's shit in the path that will CHANGE electrical properties depending on the signal passing through it.

Regarding how exactly they hooked shit up, I would expect the light element is in series with a speaker load that they hung a microphone in front of in a conventional manner. That's the boring part that didn't make the video. It's also possible they connected direct from the output of an amp through the reactive element of the lamp and directly into a mixing desk, but you have to KNOW exactly what you're dealing with and employ sufficient attenuation in the line to stay under the absolute maximum threshold of your recording equipment or you'll wind up with a smoking mess.

The only part of the video that struck me as off is where they've connected the output of the amplifier (she did say speaker level output, yes?) to the input of another amplifier. This is not a recommended procedure, and should only be considered if (again) you KNOW exactly what you're dealing with and employ sufficient attenuation in the line to stay under the absolute maximum threshold of your receiving equipment or you'll wind up with a smoking mess.

Finally, I think strobes are like fluorescent elements, except they overcome the internal resistance through a high voltage pulse and the gas (Xenon?) is not prone to change characteristics inside the operating window of your standard strobe light or flash. It's like a singing arc but within a glass envelope that will protect the contacts from oxidization and offer a longer service life.

Hopefully you can infer from that applications of use, but with the understanding that engineering the safety of application is entirely on you.

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crochambeau
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Re: Noise lamps

Post by crochambeau » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:54 am

Also, NEON is a noisy fucking lamp (I learned this by recording an acoustic band in a bar ages ago). Voltage stepped up to maintain illumination. Boring old wall frequency buzz though, could be more interesting with a variable frequency source.

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Re: Noise lamps

Post by FireAlarmPoet » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:49 pm

Thanks for the intel.
There's another video with the same setup only she's running through a power drill this time instead of a lightbulb, but as far as I can hear, neither the drill nor bulb impact the timbre of the sound in a noticeable way.
A neat trick for sure, but I don't think I'd ever have a use for it myself.
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timdrage
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Re: Noise lamps

Post by timdrage » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:12 pm

audio thru a lamp facing a solar panel with an output jack wired to it might be fun

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Re: Noise lamps

Post by killing raven sun » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:23 pm


"Sweet Home Alabama" - Musical Tesla Coils

These are two gigantic solid state musical Tesla Coils. A Tesla Coil is a special type of transformer invented by Nikola Tesla that is able to generating extremely large voltages using a phenomenon known as electrical resonance. Each coil in this video is capable of generating a 13 foot spark. This equates to about 500,000 volts of electricity.


The primary drive system for the coils consists of high power semiconductors arranged into an H-Bridge switching configuration. During a spark event, the coil is pulsed on for a few hundred millionths of a second. During this short time, thousands of amps circulate within the primary tank circuit and the energy is coupled into the secondary resonator through magnetism.


So what appears to be a continuous burst of sparks is actually a specific number of sparks generated per second. By modulating the number of sparks that emit from the coil each second, different tones can be produced by the coils.


These coils were constructed by Eric Goodchild and Steven Caton.

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