dilberts hotel

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jliat
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Re: dilberts hotel

Post by jliat » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:35 am

timdrage wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:26 am
So anyway when you start at infinity and count backwards, how long does it take to reach 14?
you never do - its a supertask (i love the term..)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertask

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clemon
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Re: dilberts hotel

Post by clemon » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:36 am

jliat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:35 am
timdrage wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:26 am
So anyway when you start at infinity and count backwards, how long does it take to reach 14?
you never do - its a supertask (i love the term..)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertask
noooo aren't supertasks tasks that are completed?
:potato: :cry:

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clemon
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Re: dilberts hotel

Post by clemon » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:38 am

A supertask is a task that consists in infinitely many component steps, but which in some sense is completed in a finite amount of time.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/spac ... upertasks/
:potato: :cry:

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jliat
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Re: dilberts hotel

Post by jliat » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:45 am

Thomson's lamp is a philosophical puzzle based on infinites. It was devised in 1954 by British philosopher James F. Thomson, who used it to analyze the possibility of a supertask, which is the completion of an infinite number of tasks.

Consider a lamp with a toggle switch. Flicking the switch once turns the lamp on. Another flick will turn the lamp off. Now suppose that there is a being able to perform the following task: starting a timer, he turns the lamp on. At the end of one minute, he turns it off. At the end of another half minute, he turns it on again. At the end of another quarter of a minute, he turns it off. At the next eighth of a minute, he turns it on again, and he continues thus, flicking the switch each time after waiting exactly one-half the time he waited before flicking it previously.[1] The sum of this infinite series of time intervals is exactly two minutes.[2]
The following question is then considered: Is the lamp on or off at two minutes?[1] Thomson reasoned that this supertask creates a contradiction:
It seems impossible to answer this question. It cannot be on, because I did not ever turn it on without at once turning it off. It cannot be off, because I did in the first place turn it on, and thereafter I never turned it off without at once turning it on. But the lamp must be either on or off. This is a contradiction.

killing raven sun
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Re: dilberts hotel

Post by killing raven sun » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:46 am

jliat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:25 am
They don't have to be all in the set for it to be infinite. You conflate complete with infinite.
From which you derive the fact that infinity is only 1 larger than a finite number, clear nonsense.
:lol: you just cant get over that infinity isnt a value, thats why you keep positing meaningless gibberish such as "infinity is only 1 larger than a finite number", i never suggested such a thing but you sure are stuck on it :lol:
jliat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:25 am
killing raven sun wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:34 am
jliat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:54 am
You keep ignoring the fact that the cardinality
yep, because its meaningless when talking infinites
No - it means countable, a term you have used. Some infinities are, others are not.
irrelevant
jliat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:25 am
You seem confused, i'm saying the set of whole numbers minus the even numbers is the set of odd numbers. Nothing to do with 'value'.
everything to do with value, you somehow think mathematical operations work the same on infinites because you keep mistaking infinity for a value
jliat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:25 am
You were the one wanting to count from infinity :doh:
you feel like a dunce because you are ignorant of set notation...

["infinite number",..., 15,14, 12, 11, ..., "infinite number"]
jliat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:25 am
killing raven sun wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:34 am
jliat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:54 am
here 'counting' shows the set of whole numbers is the same 'size' as the set of odd numbers, I never run out of either..
thats because you didnt finish counting
You never can, which is why its infinite. You wanted to start countiung down from infinity, so you need to get there first, you cant. Which is why everyone laughed at you. :mrgreen:
:lol: tim is everyone?

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Re: dilberts hotel

Post by killing raven sun » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:48 am

jliat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:45 am
The sum of this infinite series of time intervals is exactly two minutes.
no its not

more gibberish

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jliat
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Re: dilberts hotel

Post by jliat » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:01 am

killing raven sun wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:46 am
jliat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:25 am
They don't have to be all in the set for it to be infinite. You conflate complete with infinite.
From which you derive the fact that infinity is only 1 larger than a finite number, clear nonsense.
:lol: you just cant get over that infinity isnt a value, thats why you keep positing meaningless gibberish such as "infinity is only 1 larger than a finite number", i never suggested such a thing but you sure are stuck on it :lol:
Nope - you wanted infinity to be a value to count back from it, and you also maintained that removing one from it made it finite, thus you have a set which is one less than infinity, nonsense..

killing raven sun wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:34 am

everything to do with value, you somehow think mathematical operations work the same on infinites because you keep mistaking infinity for a value
Nope that was you, subtracting from infinity is unlike mathematical operations on finite numbers, or finite sets... you think it makes it one less, as would be the case of a finite set / number. Tim pointed out a site which shows this, as are very many others...

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jliat
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Re: dilberts hotel

Post by jliat » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:02 am

killing raven sun wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:48 am
jliat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:45 am
The sum of this infinite series of time intervals is exactly two minutes.
no its not

more gibberish

AKA more stuff Daric doesnt understand.

Dunce is another.

killing raven sun
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Re: dilberts hotel

Post by killing raven sun » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:08 am

jliat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:01 am
killing raven sun wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:46 am
jliat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:25 am
They don't have to be all in the set for it to be infinite. You conflate complete with infinite.
From which you derive the fact that infinity is only 1 larger than a finite number, clear nonsense.
:lol: you just cant get over that infinity isnt a value, thats why you keep positing meaningless gibberish such as "infinity is only 1 larger than a finite number", i never suggested such a thing but you sure are stuck on it :lol:
Nope - you wanted infinity to be a value to count back from it, and you also maintained that removing one from it made it finite, thus you have a set which is one less than infinity, nonsense.
wrong again, i made reference to an unknown "infinite value", its known in mathematics as a variable...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_(mathematics)
jliat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:01 am
Nope that was you, subtracting from infinity is unlike mathematical operations on finite numbers, or finite sets... you think it makes it one less, as would be the case of a finite set / number. Tim pointed out a site which shows this, as are very many others...
wow, you dont read well, too drunk?

i argue that the set isnt infinite if it does not contain all its elements, this is irrefutable

to argue otherwise is just trolling

killing raven sun
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Re: dilberts hotel

Post by killing raven sun » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:11 am

jliat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:02 am
killing raven sun wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:48 am
jliat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:45 am
The sum of this infinite series of time intervals is exactly two minutes.
no its not

more gibberish

AKA more stuff Daric doesnt understand.

Dunce is another.
:lol: oh shit, you have an opinion :lol:

so either the sequence is infinite, meaning never reaching the two minute mark, or its not meaning the state of the switch is easily determined

more mathturbation

looks like even luke gets it, you are really dumb james

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jliat
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Re: dilberts hotel

Post by jliat » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:14 am

killing raven sun wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:08 am


i argue that the set isnt infinite if it does not contain all its elements, this is irrefutable

A set isnt a set if it doesnt contain all its elements. Finite or Infinite.

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jliat
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Re: dilberts hotel

Post by jliat » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:18 am

killing raven sun wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:11 am


looks like even luke gets it,
You have company....

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jliat
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Re: dilberts hotel

Post by jliat » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:23 am

killing raven sun wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:11 am

the attention i give him is simply part of the feedback loop, dont you get it that he will argue with any position i take no matter how preposterous?

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Re: dilberts hotel

Post by killing raven sun » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:26 am

jliat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:14 am
A set isnt a set if it doesnt contain all its elements. Finite or Infinite.
yep...

["infinite value", ..., 15, 14, 12, 11, ..., "infinite value"] is not a set of [whole numbers] so it is not infinite, it starts/ends at the missing "13"

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Re: dilberts hotel

Post by killing raven sun » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:27 am

jliat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:23 am
killing raven sun wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:11 am

the attention i give him is simply part of the feedback loop, dont you get it that he will argue with any position i take no matter how preposterous?
and its delicious :lol:

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