its no insult, you are retardedjliat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:27 amYou are on safer ground trying to be insulting.... i would stay there...killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:23 am
you are really off it today, had a fight with the wife?
dilberts hotel
Moderator: xome

 Posts: 1666
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Re: dilberts hotel
Re: dilberts hotel
Not at all, you slipped up, made a mistake [ the set of whole numbers  "odd numbers"] is the set of even numbers. Which you say is not infinite, unlike the set of even numbers which is infinite. Yes stupid.. A ≠ (A+B)  Bkilling raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:35 ami slipped up? do you think this is another "gotcha" moment? you must be starvingjliat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:26 amYou slipped up  "the set of [whole numbers  "even numbers"] is clearly not infinite," yet is identical to the set of odd numbers which you say is infinite.killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:19 am
, the set of [whole numbers  "odd numbers"] is clearly not infinite, it has elements removed, but the set [odd numbers] is intact and therefore infinite
So you are saying the set of odd numbers is not the same as the set of odd numbers .
That's the gotcha. That and you are using maths & set theory  which is "math is the polar opposite of metaphysical freedom, cantor was an idiot, and so are his students"  that's you.
You mistake incomplete with infinite.killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:35 amwrong again, if anything can be added to a set it is incomplete, if your set of [even numbers] and [odd numbers] need to be added to form all [whole numbers], then your set of [whole numbers] wasnt infinite, in this case it contained no elements before you added them
You can have a set of complete integers, and add to it the letters of the alpha bet. Or a fraction... its still infinite.
A set is just a group of objects. Doesnt have to be complete.
So once the set of odd and even numbers are added together what do you get, the set of whole numbers, which is infinite.
You say no.
Re: dilberts hotel
You are on safer ground trying to be insulting.... i would stay there...killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:38 amits no insult, you are retardedjliat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:27 amYou are on safer ground trying to be insulting.... i would stay there...killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:23 am
you are really off it today, had a fight with the wife?
ℵ 0 + 1 = ℵ 0 ……….. ℵ 0 + ℵ 0 = ℵ 0

 Posts: 1666
 Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:01 pm
Re: dilberts hotel
wrong. here is where you start going off the rails and deserve no more kind responses, you are either insolent or a moronjliat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:51 amNot at all, you slipped up, made a mistake [ the set of whole numbers  "odd numbers"] is the set of even numbers.killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:35 ami slipped up? do you think this is another "gotcha" moment? you must be starving
the set [whole numbers  "odd numbers"] is not equal to [even numbers], once again you think infinity is a value, it is not
i say yes, the set is infinite after you add infinite elements, it was empty before that
damn james, at least you are consistently wrong
Re: dilberts hotel
The set of whole odd numbers has the same elements in it as the set of whole numbers minus all the even elements...killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:14 am
the set [whole numbers  "odd numbers"] is not equal to [even numbers], once again you think infinity is a value, it is not
you are saying they have not the same elements, which is crazy.
(1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9  2,4,6,8) ≠ (1,3,5,7,9) THAT IS WHAT YOU CLAIM!
I'm not thinking infinity is a value, or did Cantor...
Can do it with apples and pears.
A bag with 6 apples and six pears once the pears are removed has the same number of elements as a bag with six apples.
Re: dilberts hotel
killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:14 am
i say yes, the set is infinite after you add infinite elements, it was empty before that
The set of all whole numbers was not empty, it didnt exist.
You claimed you cant add to an infinite set, but you can.
Take the set of odd numbers, infinite, add the set of even numbers, which is infinite, and you create the set of whole numbers.
Can you add to that. Of course, a set is a collection, i can add 1/2 to it. Now its a set of whole numbers and a fraction...
Or i can add all the negative numbers. Either way the set is the same size.

 Posts: 1666
 Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:01 pm
Re: dilberts hotel
no, the set [odd numbers] is infinite because it contains al its elements, the set [whole numbers  "even numbers"] cannot be infinite because the even numbers are removed, you want to say the set [even numbers] equals the set [odd numbers] which might be true but you would need to count to be certainjliat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:23 amThe set of whole odd numbers has the same elements in it as the set of whole numbers minus all the even elements...killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:14 am
the set [whole numbers  "odd numbers"] is not equal to [even numbers], once again you think infinity is a value, it is not
no, thats what you claim, and you do so because you treat "infinity" as a value
this is irrelevant to the arguement, we arent talking about real finite objects, you are stuck thinking infinity is a value

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Re: dilberts hotel
yep, you have added nothing to the two infinite sets but out of their infinite elements you make an infinite setjliat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:28 amkilling raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:14 am
i say yes, the set is infinite after you add infinite elements, it was empty before that
The set of all whole numbers was not empty, it didnt exist.
You claimed you cant add to an infinite set, but you can.
Take the set of odd numbers, infinite, add the set of even numbers, which is infinite, and you create the set of whole numbers.
mathturbation, meaningless gibberish
wrong. the set is now ["infinity" + 1/2 + "negative numbers" + "apples"] or whatever meaningless list you want so it is gibberish
Re: dilberts hotel
No. Infinite is not the same as complete. I can have an infinite set of random numbers. Just as you can start adding elements to a set starting at any number and keep going infinitely, its an infinite set.killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:34 am
no, the set [odd numbers] is infinite because it contains al its elements,
You keep ignoring the fact that the cardinality of all the whole numbers is the same as that of all the odd numbers... etc. Showing you don't understand.
It is no different from the set of odd numbers. Show how it is not identical! You cant. And you say the set of odd numbers is infinite.killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:34 amthe set [whole numbers  "even numbers"] cannot be infinite because the even numbers are removed,
They have the same cardinality, as does the set of whole numbers. And it is certain...killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:34 amyou want to say the set [even numbers] equals the set [odd numbers] which might be true but you would need to count to be certain
1 > 1
2 > 3
3> 5
4> 7
…
...
here 'counting' shows the set of whole numbers is the same 'size' as the set of odd numbers, I never run out of either..
I'm talking about different infinities. Some are countable others not.killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:34 amthis is irrelevant to the arguement, we arent talking about real finite objects, you are stuck thinking infinity is a value
Alephnaught
ℵ 0
(alephnaught, also alephzero or the German term Alephnull) is the cardinality of the set of all natural numbers, and is an infinite cardinal.
A set has cardinality
ℵ 0
if and only if it is countably infinite, that is, there is a bijection (onetoone correspondence) between it and the natural numbers. Examples of such sets are
the set of all square numbers, the set of all cubic numbers, the set of all fourth powers, ...
the set of all perfect powers, the set of all prime powers,
the set of all even numbers, the set of all odd numbers,
the set of all prime numbers, the set of all composite numbers,
the set of all integers,
the set of all rational numbers,
the set of all constructible numbers (in the geometric sense),
the set of all algebraic numbers,
the set of all computable numbers,
the set of all definable numbers,

 Posts: 1666
 Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:01 pm
Re: dilberts hotel
wrong. you cannot have a set of random numbers that is infinite, you can never be sure they are all in the setjliat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:54 amNo. Infinite is not the same as complete. I can have an infinite set of random numbers. Just as you can start adding elements to a set starting at any number and keep going infinitely, its an infinite set.killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:34 am
no, the set [odd numbers] is infinite because it contains al its elements,
yep, because its meaningless when talking infinites
[whole numbers  "even numbers"] is a defined set, obviously its not "[odd numbers]", you think they are the same because you dont read well and think that infinity is a valuejliat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:54 amIt is no different from the set of odd numbers. Show how it is not identical! You cant. And you say the set of odd numbers is infinite.killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:34 amthe set [whole numbers  "even numbers"] cannot be infinite because the even numbers are removed,
cardinality in infinites = mathturbationjliat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:54 amThey have the came cardinality, as does the set of whole numbers. And it is certain...killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:34 amyou want to say the set [even numbers] equals the set [odd numbers] which might be true but you would need to count to be certain
1 > 1
2 > 3
3> 5
4> 7
…
...
thats because you didnt finish counting
ignorant bullshitjliat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:54 amI'm talking about different infinities. Some are countable others not.killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:34 amthis is irrelevant to the arguement, we arent talking about real finite objects, you are stuck thinking infinity is a value
Re: dilberts hotel
They don't have to be all in the set for it to be infinite. You conflate complete with infinite.killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:08 amwrong. you cannot have a set of random numbers that is infinite, you can never be sure they are all in the setjliat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:54 amNo. Infinite is not the same as complete. I can have an infinite set of random numbers. Just as you can start adding elements to a set starting at any number and keep going infinitely, its an infinite set.killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:34 am
no, the set [odd numbers] is infinite because it contains al its elements,
From which you derive the fact that infinity is only 1 larger than a finite number, clear nonsense.
No  it means countable, a term you have used. Some infinities are, others are not.killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:34 amyep, because its meaningless when talking infinites
You seem confused, i'm saying the set of whole numbers minus the even numbers is the set of odd numbers. Nothing to do with 'value'.killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:08 am[whole numbers  "even numbers"] is a defined set, obviously its not "[odd numbers]", you think they are the same because you dont read well and think that infinity is a valuejliat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:54 amIt is no different from the set of odd numbers. Show how it is not identical! You cant. And you say the set of odd numbers is infinite.killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:34 amthe set [whole numbers  "even numbers"] cannot be infinite because the even numbers are removed,
You were the one wanting to count from infinitykilling raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:34 amcardinality in infinites = mathturbationjliat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:54 amThey have the came cardinality, as does the set of whole numbers. And it is certain...killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:34 amyou want to say the set [even numbers] equals the set [odd numbers] which might be true but you would need to count to be certain
1 > 1
2 > 3
3> 5
4> 7
…
...
You never can, which is why its infinite. You wanted to start countiung down from infinity, so you need to get there first, you cant. Which is why everyone laughed at you.
Well i suppose if you cant follow it would seem like that.killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:34 amignorant bullshitjliat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:54 amI'm talking about different infinities. Some are countable others not.killing raven sun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:34 amthis is irrelevant to the arguement, we arent talking about real finite objects, you are stuck thinking infinity is a value
Re: dilberts hotel
So anyway when you start at infinity and count backwards, how long does it take to reach 14?
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