was hitler

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Clemon09
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Post by Clemon09 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:16 am

RJMyato wrote:of course that's also why it's completely braindead stupid to blame Christianity for nazism or anything else
:D

it's hardly marx and the soviet union is it?


most serious Christians seem to me to be no less or more nice than anyone else... just more ideologically extreme / motivated.
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Clemon09
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Post by Clemon09 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:17 am

more nice than?


:D !

edit seems to be ok if i'm using be as a verb :? :? :?
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RJMyato
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Post by RJMyato » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:59 am

Clemon09 wrote:it's hardly marx and the soviet union is it?
haha clemon be trollin :D

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Post by Clemon09 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:02 pm

haha.
i was gonna start a new thread...

why should we be more nice?

hello!!
it just sounds wrong cos it's colloquial :D
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nice#Adverb

endless pursuit of trying to prove i'm rational :D


my meta-ethics-thesis is: to act rationally we need to try to treat all valid claims as rationally sound, value an event, and treat the latter as rational.

the first clause cos all claims to value are irrational.
the second clause cos we can't rationally treat all events as equally valuable because even apparent inaction is an act and so it values keeping affairs as they are.
the third clause cos we can't rationally disvalue any claim in order to treat some event as more valuable than another unless we do so knowing that it is rational to do so.

basically, i don't mean that nothing can be justified, else all acts and non-acts are completely irrational... but that all valid reasons to act [my reasons and yours] should be treated as equally sound.


so what? well i think that if i'm right then as long as only reasonable moral foundations are considered [not e.g. all christians are evil; we should murder all evil people] then it is rational to be kind and so forth.
CRITICAL THEORY IS NOT AN ETHICAL THEORY IT IS A SOCIAL SCIENCE...
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amishrobots
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Post by amishrobots » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:00 pm

RJMyato wrote:
jliat wrote:and despite many lit-critters wanting otherwise Nietzsche had a big influence - in the ideas of will to power and all things being permitted
well this isn't entirely fair; the Nazis "used" a lot of ideas but anyone who gives an honest look at Nietzsche's ideas can see that they're incompatible since he hates both nationalism and racism/anti-semitism. Bataille wrote a lot about this subject in the Acephale journal

of course that's also why it's completely braindead stupid to blame Christianity for nazism or anything else
RJ; I'm not sure if that last statement was aimed at my comment personally, but I'm just going to go ahead and take it personally anyhow;

YOU are completely braindead.
My point was: Forget about fucking Hitler! his "power" whether measured in death toll, or ideological influence, is insignificant, compared to others; he is merely our modern day bogeyman. Several other world leaders have killed far more people than Hitler. And Hitler's fucked up philosophies have reached the minds of fewer people than Christianity.

My point is, that if you want to determine how "powerful" a single person was, you should look at how many other people's lives were affected in some way by that single person. In other words, look at the "amplitude" of their personality.

From this page:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... -christian :

"Hitler did mention Christianity many times in his writings. He paid Christianity a lot of lip service in Mein Kampf, and he claimed to be a Christian."

'Historian Paul Johnson wrote that Hitler hated Christianity with a passion, adding that shortly after assuming power in 1933, Hitler told Hermann Rauschnig that he intended "to stamp out Christianity root and branch."'

In 1933, Hitler said, 'It is through the peasantry that we shall really be able to destroy Christianity because there is in them a true religion rooted in nature and blood.'"

" In addition, in 1941, Hitler told General Gerhart Engel: "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." He never left the church. He was baptized a Roman Catholic as an infant and was a communicant and altar boy in his youth."

This is not about so much about "blaming" Christinsanity for Nazis, (there are many other atrocities we can blame Christ's followers for!) but understanding that, one way or another, the words of Jesus Christ reached the ears of nearly everyone on Earth, including your beloved Adolph Hitler. And understanding that Christ's words have been echoing through the minds of people all over earth for a far longer time than pussy ass Hitler's. The influence of what Jesus Christ did and said, in his lifetime, has affected more people throughout history than Hitler, thus he was more "powerful"

More actions, good or bad, have been taken in the name of Christ, than have ever been done in the name of Hitler.

My question is, based on this measure of power, is there any single human who ever existed, who is even more powerful than Jesus?

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Sleep Of Ages
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Post by Sleep Of Ages » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:04 pm

The Beatles

Clemon09
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Post by Clemon09 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:19 pm

i think jesus was more influential than powerful.


maybe spiritually powerful [after his death] but having people agree is not the same as forcing people to :)
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Clemon09
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Post by Clemon09 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:29 pm

if the historical jesus wanted to create the church as it is now [maybe a bit of a narcissist] then sure he's pretty powerful in a sense. but isn't that more down to luck?


edit whereas hitler at the height of the war could pretty much do anything and get away with it without putting it down to luck.
i was going more for control / capability than blind luck and ideological influence.

NOT saying that hitler wasn't fortunate to get into power, but that he was powerful in the sense of being politically in control. if someone in 2000 years wipes out the jewish race based on some a dubious translation of mein kampf, does that mean that hitler made that happen?
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Clemon09
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Post by Clemon09 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:45 pm

jesus just got lucky.
Last edited by Clemon09 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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RJMyato
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Post by RJMyato » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:46 pm

jesus didnt have much personal power in his time so i don't know how he would be the most powerful individual in history. christianity is maybe the most powerful religion but it's not reducible to christ as a singular human being. i mean if the dude was the most powerful person in history he prob wouldna got killed over some political dispute

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Post by xdugef » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:47 pm

Clemon09 wrote:if the historical jesus wanted to create the church as it is now [maybe a bit of a narcissist] then sure he's pretty powerful in a sense. but isn't that more down to luck?
I'm pretty sure the modern church is not what he supposedly had envisioned but then again he's probably just a myth.

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Post by MGLUE » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:48 pm

"I like Tities!"
--Bipolar Joe
Last edited by MGLUE on Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by RJMyato » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:49 pm

clemon if you were REALLY up on your critical theory youd know that power isn't really contained in individuals but is subtly enacted thru interlocking systems and networks of influnce 8)

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Post by RJMyato » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:50 pm

FOUCAULT DOGGIE

Clemon09
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Post by Clemon09 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:57 pm

RJMyato wrote:clemon if you were REALLY up on your critical theory youd know that power isn't really contained in individuals but is subtly enacted thru interlocking systems and networks of influnce 8)
haha, yeah i read some of them dudes. crazy guys speaking another language :wink: :lol:

like toilet system?
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