Is plagiarism possible?

Talk about noise music. Reviews, rants, whatever.

Moderator: xome

User avatar
xdugef
Posts: 14970
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:26 am
Location: 噪声æº￾
Contact:

Re: Is plagiarism possible?

Post by xdugef » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:49 am

RasTheDestroyer wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:39 am
As far as noise goes:

A. I think most people wouldn't go towards the trouble of claiming a noise track as their own, is there really such a thing as a casual noise fan/listener who doesn't make noise in some shape or form?

and B. After a while, noise sounds the same, or at least overlaps, it'd be a bit hard to find plaigirisms unless both parties run in the same circles
There was this German guy going by the name +-error who was performing shows using other noise artists' recordings and pretending to turn knobs on the pedals. Anyway apparently audience members at some of these shows recognized the tracks he was air noising to.

He even got himself booked to do a gig at the Norcal Noisefest but then claimed that even though he had flown the states that for some reason he had to fly immediately back to Germany without doing the festival.

User avatar
Fletcher
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:43 pm
Location: Oxfordshire
Contact:

Re: Is plagiarism possible?

Post by Fletcher » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:28 am

xdugef wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:49 am
RasTheDestroyer wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:39 am
As far as noise goes:

A. I think most people wouldn't go towards the trouble of claiming a noise track as their own, is there really such a thing as a casual noise fan/listener who doesn't make noise in some shape or form?

and B. After a while, noise sounds the same, or at least overlaps, it'd be a bit hard to find plaigirisms unless both parties run in the same circles
There was this German guy going by the name +-error who was performing shows using other noise artists' recordings and pretending to turn knobs on the pedals. Anyway apparently audience members at some of these shows recognized the tracks he was air noising to.

He even got himself booked to do a gig at the Norcal Noisefest but then claimed that even though he had flown the states that for some reason he had to fly immediately back to Germany without doing the festival.
Wait.

So he bought a load of gear for performing noise but just played from a usb stick instead? And flew to the USA for a show but bailed when he got there?

Classic.

Did nobody tell him that pretending to turn knobs on the pedals is on par with actually turning knobs on the pedals?

I just tried googling him but couldn't find anything.


Re: Plagiarism in Noise.
I guess if you go around calling yourself Merwboz and perform Merzbow-esque (inspired) noise then you could be considered as a plagiarist. The performance and visualisation of the piece is just as important.

User avatar
xdugef
Posts: 14970
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:26 am
Location: 噪声æº￾
Contact:

Re: Is plagiarism possible?

Post by xdugef » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:06 am

Fletcher wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:28 am

Wait.

So he bought a load of gear for performing noise but just played from a usb stick instead?
yup
viewtopic.php?t=5475&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Fletcher wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:28 am
And flew to the USA for a show but bailed when he got there?

Classic.
Well I don't think he had any intention of actually showing up.
Fletcher wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:28 am
I just tried googling him but couldn't find anything.
https://www.noisewiki.com/wiki/index.ph ... =%2B-error

FYI he's wearing a bootleg harshnoise.com tshirt
Image


Bonus.. Part of Emil Beaulieau's (AKA Ron Lessard) live shows was using records that he had produced .. in one case someone thought the band name Reypoo meant "Rape You" and flipped out about it. So I guess it's not plagiarism since he wrote the name of the group on the record. ;-)
3522574240_83a18e114b_z.jpg
3522574240_83a18e114b_z.jpg (62.03 KiB) Viewed 140 times

User avatar
jliat
Posts: 4106
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:34 am
Contact:

Re: Is plagiarism possible?

Post by jliat » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:22 am

Fletcher wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:28 am

Re: Plagiarism in Noise.
I guess if you go around calling yourself Merwboz and perform Merzbow-esque (inspired) noise then you could be considered as a plagiarist. The performance and visualisation of the piece is just as important.

Strictly speaking no, "Plagiarism is the "wrongful appropriation" and "stealing and publication" of another author's "language, thoughts, ideas, or expressions" and the representation of them as one's own original work. "

So making merzbow cassettes from merzbow source, CD etc. and selling them as Merzbow infringes copyright. Though you could 'play' a merzbow track given you get permission - in the UK from https://www.prsformusic.com/.

(I did some floyd and ELP midi vinyls but paid royalties via PRS.)

To plagiarise you'd need to pass off a Merzbow track as your own. Even your example I think isn't correct, tribute bands are hardly plagerising the original music and use suitable names.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribute_a ... ibute_acts

We have here in Kings Heath many such, a notable one being "Not so Young" an over 60s tribute band in which our neighbour plays. (je too is Canadian)
https://soundcloud.com/jliat/sets/jliat ... variations
https://soundcloud.com/jliat/sets/jliat ... tions-from
"The most irrational thing to do is to make something worthless, with no political emotional or entertaining purpose."

User avatar
WhiteWarlock
Posts: 2357
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:58 am

Re: Is plagiarism possible?

Post by WhiteWarlock » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:40 pm

RRRon blew our horns/tweeters playing GBH record once through his 4armed turntable...
using his own preamp/powered gain stage cranked... bastard
always have compressor/limiter on the "Acts" in your live rig
nothin new... move along... next

User avatar
Fletcher
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:43 pm
Location: Oxfordshire
Contact:

Re: Is plagiarism possible?

Post by Fletcher » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:40 am

jliat wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:22 am
Fletcher wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:28 am

Re: Plagiarism in Noise.
I guess if you go around calling yourself Merwboz and perform Merzbow-esque (inspired) noise then you could be considered as a plagiarist. The performance and visualisation of the piece is just as important.
To plagiarise you'd need to pass off a Merzbow track as your own. Even your example I think isn't correct, tribute bands are hardly plagerising the original music and use suitable names.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribute_a ... ibute_acts
I hadn't really considered "tribute" acts.

What happens if you call yourself a Merzbow tribute act but perform your own noise productions? Tributes do not always perform exact replica's of original arrangements....

User avatar
jliat
Posts: 4106
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:34 am
Contact:

Re: Is plagiarism possible?

Post by jliat » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:57 am

Fletcher wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:40 am
jliat wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:22 am
Fletcher wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:28 am

Re: Plagiarism in Noise.
I guess if you go around calling yourself Merwboz and perform Merzbow-esque (inspired) noise then you could be considered as a plagiarist. The performance and visualisation of the piece is just as important.
To plagiarise you'd need to pass off a Merzbow track as your own. Even your example I think isn't correct, tribute bands are hardly plagerising the original music and use suitable names.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribute_a ... ibute_acts
I hadn't really considered "tribute" acts.

What happens if you call yourself a Merzbow tribute act but perform your own noise productions? Tributes do not always perform exact replica's of original arrangements....


Well that would be OK as long as you didn't try to pass off your own material as Merzbow, that would be forgery? And within the realm of classical music its OK to produce variations on a theme of another composer... though the like of Brahms was hardly a tribute band. :roll:

And of course its possible to do 'covers' of an original, one of my favourites…

https://soundcloud.com/jliat/sets/jliat ... variations
https://soundcloud.com/jliat/sets/jliat ... tions-from
"The most irrational thing to do is to make something worthless, with no political emotional or entertaining purpose."

User avatar
xdugef
Posts: 14970
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:26 am
Location: 噪声æº￾
Contact:

Re: Is plagiarism possible?

Post by xdugef » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:08 am

jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:57 am
Fletcher wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:40 am
jliat wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:22 am


To plagiarise you'd need to pass off a Merzbow track as your own. Even your example I think isn't correct, tribute bands are hardly plagerising the original music and use suitable names.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribute_a ... ibute_acts
I hadn't really considered "tribute" acts.

What happens if you call yourself a Merzbow tribute act but perform your own noise productions? Tributes do not always perform exact replica's of original arrangements....


Well that would be OK as long as you didn't try to pass off your own material as Merzbow, that would be forgery? And within the realm of classical music its OK to produce variations on a theme of another composer... though the like of Brahms was hardly a tribute band. :roll:

And of course its possible to do 'covers' of an original, one of my favourites…
Covers and tributes aren't plagiarism as there isn't an element of deception even if it's not an exact replica. It would seem that they are giving credit where credit is due.

I think the general idea of tribute bands is to sound like the original but it's hardly a rule. I think in general a tribute band mostly does cover of one group and that's it.

I wouldn't called the Residents a tribute band but they've put a number of releases that were tributes to specific artists and the results sound nothing like the original.. which is the appeal. But again not plagiarism because they are giving credit nor is it forgery because they aren't claiming their recording is that of the original artist.

May not be a forgery but I was looking for something unrelated to this and stumbled upon a story about how Kanye West has a few unfinished or unreleased projects and parts of one turned up on itunes as ringtones.

It wouldn't be hard to pass off a Vomir forgery.. unless he has been very diligent at keeping track of everyone he's given permission to do releases of his work... otherwise how would anybody know the difference right.. isn't that the point?

User avatar
timdrage
Posts: 5448
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:08 am
Contact:

Re: Is plagiarism possible?

Post by timdrage » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:29 am

Fletcher wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:28 am
I guess if you go around calling yourself Merwboz and perform Merzbow-esque (inspired) noise then you could be considered as a plagiarist.
I think i still have some downloads of 'MERBZOW' releases somewhere, might do a secret bootleg re-release

User avatar
jliat
Posts: 4106
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:34 am
Contact:

Re: Is plagiarism possible?

Post by jliat » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:41 am

Nearly! ….Indian Restaurant just down the road....
merz.jpg
merz.jpg (137.89 KiB) Viewed 73 times
https://soundcloud.com/jliat/sets/jliat ... variations
https://soundcloud.com/jliat/sets/jliat ... tions-from
"The most irrational thing to do is to make something worthless, with no political emotional or entertaining purpose."

User avatar
timdrage
Posts: 5448
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:08 am
Contact:

Re: Is plagiarism possible?

Post by timdrage » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:28 am

:D great

I used to love going to visit the transplanted Merzbarn wall in the art gallery when I used to live in Newcastle. Liked it better when it was kind of hidden in a special cupboard there, in recent years it's open to the main gallery space tho https://merzbarnlangdale.wordpress.com/

User avatar
xdugef
Posts: 14970
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:26 am
Location: 噪声æº￾
Contact:

Re: Is plagiarism possible?

Post by xdugef » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:56 am

timdrage wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:28 am
:D great

I used to love going to visit the transplanted Merzbarn wall in the art gallery when I used to live in Newcastle. Liked it better when it was kind of hidden in a special cupboard there, in recent years it's open to the main gallery space tho https://merzbarnlangdale.wordpress.com/
https://contraktor.bandcamp.com/track/merzwow

User avatar
¼ dead
Posts: 1194
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:23 pm

Re: Is plagiarism possible?

Post by ¼ dead » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:16 pm

Not quite on topic, but I want to instigate a sub-genre of "noise" called Merzbeat. Total mid-2000's laptop Merzbow copycat-worship. Something strange about this era. I don't even think it's his best (a very mixed bag), but there's something addicting about it. Making similar sounds is a very zen-like process.

MysteriousCreep
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:48 pm

Re: Is plagiarism possible?

Post by MysteriousCreep » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:31 am

¼ dead wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:16 pm
Not quite on topic, but I want to instigate a sub-genre of "noise" called Merzbeat. Total mid-2000's laptop Merzbow copycat-worship. Something strange about this era. I don't even think it's his best (a very mixed bag), but there's something addicting about it. Making similar sounds is a very zen-like process.
Like, specifically what he was doing on the album Merzbeat? Because that's kinda just Power Noise but more psychedelic. Not that I wouldn't be down with that. I haven't listened to the majority of Merzbow's catalog (mostly his analogue works, Pulse Demon, Hybrid Noisebloom, etc), so I wouldn't know what other signifiers there are. I haven't even listened to Merzbeat for a while.

User avatar
clemonz
Posts: 18883
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:19 am
Location: bye.

Re: Is plagiarism possible?

Post by clemonz » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:58 am

i always assumed merzbow doesn't over think things, just plays hard :shrug:
so you're going to have me murdered for not being your bf :lmao:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests