How do you market your noise brand?

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Sleep Of Ages
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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by Sleep Of Ages » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:24 pm

melkobukva wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:46 am
jliat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:08 am
melkobukva wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:49 am


Is this why Discogs is stuffed with €50 Harsh Noise releases?
Sure - and how many "sales".
You could easily go and see for yourself, but that wouldn't matter, because the question is whether noise is produced by each individual for himself, for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange. The existence of numerous Harsh Noise listings on Discogs demonstrates the contrary.
jliat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:08 am
This is Attali's take- from the 70s pre internet.
Why do you bring him up then? Might as well quote John Wycliffe as your source on music business.
jliat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:08 am
Another feature is my "Cargo Cults" idea.
Yet another proof that Wikipedia is not a reliable source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult
No mention that "Cargo Cults" were your idea.
jliat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:08 am
In noise we have "Labels" "Bands" "Shows" which on the face of things 'resemble' the "Real" thing but in fact are not.
A cargo cult is a belief system among a relatively undeveloped society in which adherents practice superstitious rituals hoping to bring modern goods supplied by a more technologically advanced society.
:roll:

It would be interesting to know if ANY Noise acts are self supporting?

Sam McKinlay - The Rita works in a skateboard shop - Vancouver Skull Skates - evidently he is an expert...

Vomir too has a day job.
Not unique to noise at all.

Moreover, your second point invalidates your first point. If people engage in music business cargo cults, their music is definitely not music produced by each individual for himself, for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange.
I really like this guy.

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jliat
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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by jliat » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:08 am

melkobukva wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:46 am
jliat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:08 am
melkobukva wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:49 am


Is this why Discogs is stuffed with €50 Harsh Noise releases?
Sure - and how many "sales".
You could easily go and see for yourself, but that wouldn't matter, because the question is whether noise is produced by each individual for himself, for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange. The existence of numerous Harsh Noise listings on Discogs demonstrates the contrary.
It was a rhetorical question. As to why these €50 releases are on Discogs whatever the reason I doubt if marketing is valid. So I did what you asked searched discogs for Harsh Noise = The Dead C - Harsh 70's Reality (2xLP, Album) @ £28.00. was the most expensive... so firstly factually you seem to be wrong, and before you were also factually wrong as what was Noise via a similar means. And secondly - if an object appears for sale it doesn't logically mean that was its purpose for being made. (you might see that) Moreover the motivation for quite a few artworks has been not motivated by exchange, even if the artist subsequently offers these for sale. In other words the motivation is for exchange - marketing, it could just as much not be.

And here there are examples of 'commercial' art and art which is not, yet subsequently is sold. i.e. the whole issue being posited by Frank Zappa... (amongst others) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We%27re_O ... _the_Money, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist%27s_Shit... and even in the pop world - exchange when the 'artist' no longer needs money... ??

It would require some work to find out what motivates those who make HN and HNW... sales or something other. I know of a few 'session' musicians who can earn a living, you can see others busking on the London Underground - though none doing HN or HNW. But if you think marketing HN and HNW for exchange is the motivation for much of those who produce HN and HNW - i'll for want of the necessary work, say I beg to differ. Though my basis isn't perhaps of sufficient rigour to persuade a sceptic.
jliat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:08 am
This is Attali's take- from the 70s pre internet.
melkobukva wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:49 am
Why do you bring him up then? Might as well quote John Wycliffe as your source on music business.
Because his work is considered of interest to many who have written on music and noise. That it describes the evolution of noise in culture and economics. And he is offering an account not only what has occurred but what might. Right - so you think John Wycliffe is or could be as relevant a source. I think Wal Thornhill might suit you better.
jliat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:08 am
Another feature is my "Cargo Cults" idea.
melkobukva wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:49 am
Yet another proof that Wikipedia is not a reliable source.
..
No mention that "Cargo Cults" were your idea.
Well we've established Discogs isn't a reliable source either - no mention of 50 euro noise releases.
melkobukva wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:49 am
Not unique to noise at all.
That noise 'acts' are not self supporting? Not unique they use electricity and are humans? Your point is what. That many involved in music do this not to market 50 eu CDs on discogs. A recent feature is pay to play, especially here in some pubs - by kids into heavy metal. So what are they doing- wanting to be like Deep Purple - but surely knowing they are not and likely never will be?
Are they motivated by pleasure or capitalism? (again rhetorical)
melkobukva wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:49 am
Moreover, your second point invalidates your first point. If people engage in music business cargo cults, their music is definitely not music produced by each individual for himself, for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange.
You seem to think i'm talking about the music business. I'm not. I'm saying that i think many making HN and HNW do this more or less along the lines of Attali's ideas. (i'm not citing the whole book or chapter, but if you are serious you might like to read it) . And that some, perhaps seriously - though i doubt it - create 'labels' etc. Zines - which 'mimics' the music industry. The Wire is a profit making venture- are those making noise zines likewise?

And the motivation for doing so is more "for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange" - than that of the previous epoch in his book - the transition from "repeating" to "composing". So yes perhaps some in noise are still "repeating" in Attali's sense. But obviously not in actual main stream music industry terms - they do not make millions... hence the "cargo cult" metaphor.

"The only possible challenge to repetitive power takes the route of a breach in social repetition and the control of noisemaking..in other words to create one's own code and work..."

He is perhaps somewhat optimistic.

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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by melkobukva » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:25 am

jliat wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:08 am
It was a rhetorical question. As to why these €50 releases are on Discogs whatever the reason I doubt if marketing is valid. So I did what you asked searched discogs for Harsh Noise = The Dead C - Harsh 70's Reality (2xLP, Album) @ £28.00. was the most expensive... so firstly factually you seem to be wrong, and before you were also factually wrong as what was Noise via a similar means.
https://www.discogs.com/The-Rita-Escort ... se/4943854
https://www.discogs.com/Vomir-Claustrat ... se/1305991
https://www.discogs.com/Incapacitants-K ... ase/982773
https://www.discogs.com/Werewolf-Jerusa ... se/1338146
https://www.discogs.com/Violent-Onsen-G ... ase/600110
https://www.discogs.com/Incapacitants-P ... ase/716615

You are welcome.

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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by jliat » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:32 am

"You could easily go and see for yourself, but that wouldn't matter, because the question is whether noise is produced by each individual for himself, for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange. The existence of numerous Harsh Noise listings on Discogs demonstrates the contrary. "

The nearest to €50 i could find.

And no! No it doesnt demonstrate the contrary...... :-)
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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by melkobukva » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:47 am

OK, I admit that I was factually wrong. James can not easily find things on the Internet :)

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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by jliat » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:56 am

melkobukva wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:47 am
OK, I admit that I was factually wrong.
You are very welcome...
melkobukva wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:47 am

James can not easily find things on the Internet :)
"James can not easily find things on the Internet "

On topic?

The fact that something is for sale doesn't prove it was the cause... n.b. look up 'The oldest profession' on the internet.

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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by melkobukva » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:13 am

jliat wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:56 am
On topic?
Yes. Maybe Masami Akita recorded Pulse Demon for himself, for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange. And then he sent it to Bill Yurkiewicz for himself, for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange. And then Bill paid Dave Shirk for the mastering, printed the CDs and distributed them, all for himself, for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange. But at the end of the day stupid liteners who never read Attali nor attended prof. Whitehead's lectures took Pulse Demon to Discogs to be sold, bought, traded. Regardless of authorial intention, noise is treated by the audience in exactly the same way as any other music genre. This is the topic.

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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by jliat » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:51 am

melkobukva wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:13 am
jliat wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:56 am
On topic?
Yes. Maybe Masami Akita recorded Pulse Demon for himself, for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange. And then he sent it to Bill Yurkiewicz for himself, for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange. And then Bill paid Dave Shirk for the mastering, printed the CDs and distributed them, all for himself, for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange.
Glad you've come around to this from your Marketing a Brand.

But my 'on topic' point was the one you made
melkobukva wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:13 am
James can not easily find things on the Internet
Which maybe true - unlike melkobukva, I was unable to find who White Warlock and melkobukva were IRL. Though it seems an easy thing to do. But now I know 'doxing' isn't etiquette...
melkobukva wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:13 am
But at the end of the day stupid liteners who never read Attali nor attended prof. Whitehead's lectures took Pulse Demon to Discogs to be sold, bought, traded.
I wouldn't call them stupid. Or have I ever lectured on Attali or noise, and i'm not a professor. Why they took pulse Demon to Discogs could be for all kinds of reasons - but none I would think to "market your noise brand" - the topic!
melkobukva wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:13 am
Regardless of authorial intention, noise is treated by the audience in exactly the same way as any other music genre. This is the topic.
No - the topic is "How do you market your noise brand?" not the 'intentional fallacy'. You might want to strart another thread. And provide support for the assertion you made above.

So your agument is that the audience for The Spice Girls treats the music "in exactly the same way" as those of Third stream... interesting idea..

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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by melkobukva » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:31 am

jliat wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:51 am
Why they took pulse Demon to Discogs could be for all kinds of reasons - but none I would think to "market your noise brand" - the topic!
I said: the ways to market your noise brand are the same as ways to market any other popular music brand.
You said: no, because noise is made for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange
I demonstrated that you were wrong.
Everything is perfectly on topic, if you want another thread, please go ahead and start it yourself.
This one stems from the following claims you've made:
jliat wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:57 pm
melkobukva wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:05 pm
jliat wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:03 pm
Why is it assumed " a given" that privacy is a good thing? (especially in the music business! )
What's so special about the music business?

Well not 'special' in any sense of more significant, but in that within such industries publicity is normally sort after. Same goes
for being in any entertainment business unless its banned, in which case some secrecy is required. But in other activities, privacy is more important, So crooks tend to want to keep secret the source of their wealth.

I've been reading Wal Thonhill (Electric Universe Guy) who is very into 'common sense'. Just a thought - surely in any entertainment business which is legal publicity trumps privacy?
:roll:

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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by killing raven sun » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:47 am

jliat sure is a master debator

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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by jliat » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:39 am

melkobukva wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:31 am
jliat wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:51 am
Why they took pulse Demon to Discogs could be for all kinds of reasons - but none I would think to "market your noise brand" - the topic!
I said: the ways to market your noise brand are the same as ways to market any other popular music brand.
Well you need to qualify "noise brand" - I know you think wiki unreliable so its not "A brand is a name, term, design, symbol, or other feature that distinguishes an organization or product from its rivals in the eyes of the customer. Brands are used in business, marketing, and advertising". But noise isn't by popular music standards - "popular". And the marketing methods - - mass media TV etc which are used for popular music - used in noise. Well - no.
melkobukva wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:31 am
You said: no, because noise is made for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange
I didn't - I quoted Attali's book on noise and the idea of a music as such, which I think makes more sense than noise is marketed no different to Taylor Swift - or its audience no different. He points to such a shift 'Repeating to Composition'. If you think its not worth reading Attali on Noise, or that reading John Wycliffe as a source on music business is as good i'm happy for you to believe this.
melkobukva wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:31 am
I demonstrated that you were wrong.
You might think so, or like to think so but you didn't.
melkobukva wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:47 am
OK, I admit that I was factually wrong.
So i'd say your premise being based on something factually wrong - therefor fails.
melkobukva wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:31 am
Everything is perfectly on topic, if you want another thread, please go ahead and start it yourself.
This one stems from the following claims you've made:
No - my internet skills are not part of the thread, intentions of audiences and their self same no matter the genre.. all these are not on topic.
jliat wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:57 pm
melkobukva wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:05 pm
What's so special about the music business?
Yes agreed - I said it used publicity.
melkobukva wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:05 pm
Well not 'special' in any sense of more significant, but in that within such industries publicity is normally sort after.
Wow! A tautology. You find secrecy in intuitions where secrecy is normally sort after. What next - "All husbands are non bachelors!!
REALLY!.

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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by melkobukva » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:46 am

jliat wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:39 am
No - my internet skills are not part of the thread, intentions of audiences and their self same no matter the genre.. all these are not on topic.
jliat wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:57 pm
melkobukva wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:05 pm
What's so special about the music business?
Yes agreed - I said it used publicity.
melkobukva wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:05 pm
Well not 'special' in any sense of more significant, but in that within such industries publicity is normally sort after.
Wow! A tautology. You find secrecy in intuitions where secrecy is normally sort after. What next - "All husbands are non bachelors!!
REALLY!.
As long as you keep messing up the quotes, they very much are.


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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by jliat » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:57 am

Well done - you've managed the personal slur repost.

You might want to be careful if you ever want to visit the UK if it becomes a Hate Crime. ("Misogyny and ageism could be hate crimes")
Last edited by jliat on Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by Fletcher » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:58 am

www.snarerush.co.uk
An electronic music zine in occasional print format

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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by melkobukva » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:24 am

jliat wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:57 am
Well done - you've managed the personal slur repost.

You might want to be careful if you ever want to visit the UK if it becomes a Hate Crime. ("Misogyny and ageism could be hate crimes")
Image

Did you mean personal salary report :chin:

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