Brazil!!!

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killing raven sun
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Re: Brazil!!!

Post by killing raven sun » Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:41 am

jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:59 am
"confusing facilitation with causation" Yes it's called challenging the accepted dogma.
:lol: i bet you actually believe that :lol:

no, you are not challenging anything, you are a tool of the elites, and now you parrot their propaganda, the idea that the free access to machinery by the people must be controlled for their own good, you are the type that think guns kill people so guns must be eliminated to end murder, you dismiss the human spirit which loves and will kill anything to keep that love safe

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Re: Brazil!!!

Post by jliat » Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:32 am

killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:41 am
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:59 am
"confusing facilitation with causation" Yes it's called challenging the accepted dogma.
:lol: i bet you actually believe that :lol:

no, you are not challenging anything,
Its clear I challenged your view regarding facilitation / causation..
killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:41 am
you are a tool of the elites, and now you parrot their propaganda, the idea that the free access to machinery by the people must be controlled for their own good,
quite the opposite, i'm saying the 'ideas' of both the elite and their opposition might be equally superficial. Which includes the so called alternative theories.... but not seeing my point you address a strawman of your own making..
killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:41 am
you are the type that think guns kill people so guns must be eliminated to end murder,
No i'm not. Murder existed long before guns, eliminating guns would end gun crime, eliminating humans would end murder. I'm not in favour of either. So i'm not "the type". Another strawman.
killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:41 am
you dismiss the human spirit which loves and will kill anything to keep that love safe
Sounds like simple self protection of the species typical of most mammels. The mendacity of humans in thinking that they think freely and of a 'spirit'...

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Re: Brazil!!!

Post by killing raven sun » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:10 am

jliat wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:12 am
The loudspeaker and Radio are said to be responsible for the rise of Fascism back in the 20s / 30s... especially Hitler. What we might be seeing is an establishment, with its media, failing to see the power of a new technology. Well that's my theory. Its neither the right or left, or media propaganda that's causing these changes but the technology itself, which has no morality. :roll:
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:32 am
i'm saying the 'ideas' of both the elite and their opposition might be equally superficial.
you dont really know what you are trying to say :roll:
jliat wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:12 am
Sounds like simple self protection of the species typical of most mammels. The mendacity of humans in thinking that they think freely and of a 'spirit'...
:lol: you are the dumbest person evar :lol:
or maybe just more purposeful misunderstanding to continue argument

hard to believe you dont know the difference between primal instinct and the emotion of love

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Re: Brazil!!!

Post by jliat » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:45 am

killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:10 am
jliat wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:12 am
The loudspeaker and Radio are said to be responsible for the rise of Fascism back in the 20s / 30s... especially Hitler. What we might be seeing is an establishment, with its media, failing to see the power of a new technology. Well that's my theory. Its neither the right or left, or media propaganda that's causing these changes but the technology itself, which has no morality. :roll:
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:32 am
i'm saying the 'ideas' of both the elite and their opposition might be equally superficial.
you dont really know what you are trying to say :roll:
I know what i'm trying to say, and i'm saying it, if you cant understand it that is more your problem. The idea is that the rise of Fascism - for example- was not due to political or economic factors but *caused* by technology. The power was not in the ideas, speeches and such but in the technology. Likewise the printing press didn't facilitate the enlightenment, but was the cause, or now, the internet is causing social and economic change is clear, but also altering language and thought itself.
killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:10 am
jliat wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:12 am
Sounds like simple self protection of the species typical of most mammals. The mendacity of humans in thinking that they think freely and of a 'spirit'...
:lol: you are the dumbest person evar :lol:
or maybe just more purposeful misunderstanding to continue argument
hard to believe you dont know the difference between primal instinct and the emotion of love
And its easy to believe you can not question a 'given'. Yet within living memory whole peoples put fatherland before personal feelings. So you've been brought up in a country which believes in apple pie and sentimental family love, the right to arms in order to protect liberty... sure and freedom of thought :wall:

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Re: Brazil!!!

Post by killing raven sun » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:11 am

jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:45 am
The idea is that the rise of Fascism - for example- was not due to political or economic factors but *caused* by technology. The power was not in the ideas, speeches and such but in the technology.
preposterous, you have no evidence of such, peoples have been warring for ages, sticks or nukes its all the same
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:45 am
Likewise the printing press didn't facilitate the enlightenment, but was the cause,
this is just more racist ranting, you are far from enlightened
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:45 am
or now, the internet is causing social and economic change is clear, but also altering language and thought itself.
wow, once again you have no evidence for this, the exchange of information doesnt cause change, its called "actionable intelligence" for a reason, it requires action
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:45 am
And its easy to believe you can not question a 'given'. Yet within living memory whole peoples put fatherland before personal feelings.
preposterous, the very notion of a "fatherland" is at the root of "personal feelings", you still dont know what you are trying to say
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:45 am
So you've been brought up in a country which believes in apple pie and sentimental family love, the right to arms in order to protect liberty... sure and freedom of thought :wall:
well, i dont think anybody "believes" in apple pie, sentimental familial love is common across nation borders, all people want to protect their thing, and freedom of thought is guaranteed by individuality of mind so once again you havent made any coherent point :lol:

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Re: Brazil!!!

Post by jliat » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:19 am

killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:11 am
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:45 am
The idea is that the rise of Fascism - for example- was not due to political or economic factors but *caused* by technology. The power was not in the ideas, speeches and such but in the technology.
preposterous, you have no evidence of such, peoples have been warring for ages, sticks or nukes its all the same
Ah - now you begin to get my point! But I didn't say War, I said the rise of Fascism - not the same thing. War as opposed to fighting needs nations - which in turn requires civilization, in turn agriculture - a tool based technology - the plough. No plough no civilization no war. And the evidence - is there if you look "Allied with his relative youth as a politician and the new technologies of radio and moving images .."
killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:11 am
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:45 am
Likewise the printing press didn't facilitate the enlightenment, but was the cause,
this is just more racist ranting, you are far from enlightened
Racist? Durr? "The Enlightenment was an intellectual and philosophical movement that dominated the world of ideas in Europe during the 18th century" Are you being deliberately slow?
killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:11 am
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:45 am
or now, the internet is causing social and economic change is clear, but also altering language and thought itself.
wow, once again you have no evidence for this, the exchange of information doesnt cause change, its called "actionable intelligence" for a reason, it requires action
"Online shopping is king - high street stores must adapt or die
Shopping via the internet is no longer just an up-and-coming challenger to the high street..." "Is Texting Killing the English Language? | TIME.com" "A Study on Text Messaging Affects Teen Literacy and ... " Stock markets now function differently due to automated systems, the idea that this will affect thinking is more tricky, but if printing caused "The Century of Philosophy"... I see no reason why it will not.
killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:11 am
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:45 am
And its easy to believe you can not question a 'given'. Yet within living memory whole peoples put fatherland before personal feelings.
preposterous, the very notion of a "fatherland" is at the root of "personal feelings", you still dont know what you are trying to say
You are finding this difficult. Humans had feelings before nation states. 40,000 years the last 10,000 had agriculture so nation states. But even more recent it was only with the reformation that the classes in societies identified with their nation. Prior to that the aristocracy spoke latin, the common people local dialects.
killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:11 am
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:45 am
So you've been brought up in a country which believes in apple pie and sentimental family love, the right to arms in order to protect liberty... sure and freedom of thought :wall:
well, i dont think anybody "believes" in apple pie, sentimental familial love is common across nation borders, all people want to protect their thing, and freedom of thought is guaranteed by individuality of mind so once again you havent made any coherent point :lol:
The point has been made. You seem to be projecting American Ideology onto the world and humanity through history. "familial love is common across nation borders," and amongst many mammals... though freedom of thought not so. Slavery was once common, and not always forced. And again " individuality of mind" - not in some societies. If not most... and not in the past - heresy! you for instance are vegan? and think it was an individual decision, but veganism existed before you knew of it.

time for the Devil...


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Re: Brazil!!!

Post by killing raven sun » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:08 am

jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:19 am
War as opposed to fighting needs nations - which in turn requires civilization, in turn agriculture - a tool based technology - the plough. No plough no civilization no war. And the evidence - is there if you look "Allied with his relative youth as a politician and the new technologies of radio and moving images .."
this is a very modern white european view, so its valid among you white supremacists i guess, the rest of the world disagrees with you
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:19 am
Racist? Durr? "The Enlightenment was an intellectual and philosophical movement that dominated the world of ideas in Europe during the 18th century" Are you being deliberately slow?
yeah, racist, dont care about your fake white enlightenment, more propaganda
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:19 am
"Online shopping is king - high street stores must adapt or die
technology and commerce have been linked since the beginning, technology doesnt create need, social programming creates want, people are lazy sex addicts, they drive the masters of technology...
Image
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:19 am
Humans had feelings before nation states. 40,000 years the last 10,000 had agriculture so nation states. But even more recent it was only with the reformation that the classes in societies identified with their nation. Prior to that the aristocracy spoke latin
the fucking chinese spoke latin?, fuck me, thats a tid bit i had not heard before, the fucking indians spoke latin? gawd damn, and here i thought you were an ignorant racist, my bad


jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:19 am
You seem to be projecting American Ideology onto the world and humanity through history.
:lol: says the most eurocentric person on this board :lol:
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:19 am
though freedom of thought not so. Slavery was once common, and not always forced.
wow, wut? slavery was/is always forced, but it didnt keep the slaves from thinking whatever they wanted, only their physical actions were restrained, as evidenced by the ones who embraced it and changed their thinking on what it meant to be black skinned in america and how to best proceed, they were only slaves to their own thoughts, whatever the motivation
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:19 am
And again " individuality of mind" - not in some societies. If not most... and not in the past - heresy!
see here, this isnt up for debate, each is an immutable mind, it is under its own influence, all else follows
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:19 am
you for instance are vegan?
:lol: never been right once in his life :lol:

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Re: Brazil!!!

Post by jliat » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:46 am

killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:08 am
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:19 am
War as opposed to fighting needs nations - which in turn requires civilization, in turn agriculture - a tool based technology - the plough. No plough no civilization no war. And the evidence - is there if you look "Allied with his relative youth as a politician and the new technologies of radio and moving images .."
this is a very modern white european view, so its valid among you white supremacists i guess, the rest of the world disagrees with you
Daric you are not the rest of the world. But are having a bad day it seems.
Rice was domesticated in China between 11,500 and 6,200 BC with earliest known cultivation from 5,700 BC,[9] followed by mung, soy and azuki beans. Sheep were domesticated in Mesopotamia between 13,000 and 11,000 years ago.[10] Cattle were domesticated from the wild aurochs in the areas of modern Turkey and Pakistan some 10,500 years ago.[11] Domestic pigs had multiple centres of origin in Eurasia, including Europe, East Asia and Southwest Asia,[12] where wild boar were first domesticated about 10,500 years ago.[13] In the Andes of South America, the potato was domesticated between 10,000 and 7,000 years ago, along with beans, coca, llamas, alpacas, and guinea pigs. Sugarcane and some root vegetables were domesticated in New Guinea around 9,000 years ago. Sorghum was domesticated in the Sahel region of Africa by 7,000 years ago. Cotton was domesticated in Peru by 5,600 years ago,[14] and was independently domesticated in Eurasia. In Mesoamerica, wild teosinte was domesticated to maize by 6,000 years ago
The white supremacist thing – odd?
killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:08 am
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:19 am
Racist? Durr? "The Enlightenment was an intellectual and philosophical movement that dominated the world of ideas in Europe during the 18th century" Are you being deliberately slow?
yeah, racist, dont care about your fake white enlightenment, more propaganda
Its a name of a period of history – it doesn't mean people were enlightened. “French: le Siècle des Lumières, lit. '"the Century of Lights"'” and no it doest mean there were no lights before. Its just a name of a period, Wednesday is NOT Odins day... October isnt the 8th month. Its just convenient to use this word. Like the Victorian, or Romantic periods...
killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:08 am
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:19 am
"Online shopping is king - high street stores must adapt or die
technology and commerce have been linked since the beginning, technology doesnt create need, social programming creates want, people are lazy sex addicts, they drive the masters of technology...
So flint tools were created by social programming- no. Pottery by the need for pots? No.
killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:08 am
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:19 am
Humans had feelings before nation states. 40,000 years the last 10,000 had agriculture so nation states. But even more recent it was only with the reformation that the classes in societies identified with their nation. Prior to that the aristocracy spoke latin
the fucking chinese spoke latin?, fuck me, thats a tid bit i had not heard before, the fucking indians spoke latin? gawd damn, and here i thought you were an ignorant racist, my bad
Yes you are wrong. Nation sates – the clue was reformation, which occurred in europe. Even now many in China are not 'signed up' to being in a nation state.
Most theories see the nation state as a 19th-century European phenomenon, facilitated by developments such as state-mandated education, mass literacy and mass media. However, historians[who?] also note the early emergence of a relatively unified state and identity in Portugal and the Dutch Republic.
The 'National State' is an idea... as you live in a State – Oregon – a state created in the 19thC.
killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:08 am
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:19 am
You seem to be projecting American Ideology onto the world and humanity through history.
:lol: says the most eurocentric person on this board :lol:
I'm not saying how I voted, but the UK for many is not Europe.
[/quote]
killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:08 am
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:19 am
though freedom of thought not so. Slavery was once common, and not always forced.
wow, wut? slavery was/is always forced...
wut indeed.. No it is not always forced..
Indenture, otherwise known as bonded labour or debt bondage, is a form of unfree labour under which a person pledges himself or herself against a loan.[14] The services required to repay the debt, and their duration, may be undefined.[14] Debt bondage can be passed on from generation to generation, with children required to pay off their progenitors' debt.[14] It is the most widespread form of slavery today.
killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:08 am
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:19 am
And again " individuality of mind" - not in some societies. If not most... and not in the past - heresy!
see here, this isnt up for debate, each is an immutable mind, it is under its own influence, all else follows
Sorry it is up for debate, otherwise don't reply. “ immutable mind” nonsense, minds change, as you say above you made a mistake. “Your Bad”

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Re: Brazil!!!

Post by killing raven sun » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:31 am

jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:46 am
Even now many in China are not 'signed up' to being in a nation state.
Image
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:46 am
No it is not always forced..
Indenture, otherwise known as bonded labour or debt bondage, is a form of unfree labour under which a person pledges himself or herself against a loan.
indentured servitude is a choice, so, not slavery

jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:46 am
Sorry it is up for debate, otherwise don't reply. “ immutable mind” nonsense, minds change, as you say above you made a mistake. “Your Bad”
no, you are a moron, there is no debate, all individuals have their own mind, that is the truth, your arguments to the contrary are stupidity

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Re: Brazil!!!

Post by jliat » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:40 pm

killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:31 am
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:46 am
No it is not always forced..
Indenture, otherwise known as bonded labour or debt bondage, is a form of unfree labour under which a person pledges himself or herself against a loan.
indentured servitude is a choice, so, not slavery
It is the most widespread form of slavery today.
Ignore the facts if they prove your theory wrong. Just as you ignore 'nation states' and the origins of civilization... I think this part of the thread seems done.
killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:31 am
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:46 am
Sorry it is up for debate, otherwise don't reply. “ immutable mind” nonsense, minds change, as you say above you made a mistake. “Your Bad”
no, you are a moron, there is no debate, all individuals have their own mind, that is the truth, your arguments to the contrary are stupidity
Name calling wont help you here as elsewhere - I wont go into all the stuff about civilization, nations etc, you've given up there- but failed to grasp yet argue with my idea re technology. So that's about it.

Of course all humans have their own minds, have their own feet and hands. (which they can lose)

So from " each is an immutable mind, it is under its own influence" - which is wrong - minds change, and " and freedom of thought is guaranteed by individuality of mind " which is also wrong - people are often influenced against their will, blindly follow fashion, blindly believe stuff despite contrary evidence, you've arrived at "all individuals have their own mind, that is the truth, your arguments to the contrary are stupidity" which if i did make that argument would be wrong, but i didn't.

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Re: Brazil!!!

Post by killing raven sun » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:30 am

jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:40 pm
[garbage]
doosh

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Sleep Of Ages
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Re: Brazil!!!

Post by Sleep Of Ages » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:21 pm

Daric, I don't know if I envy your patience or pity your masochism. Or perhaps even be concerned.
I am sure you do a great favor to Jliat's wife tho, "Yeah, go play the great objector philosopher bringer of light with your noise internet buddies, dear".

killing raven sun
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Re: Brazil!!!

Post by killing raven sun » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:30 pm

Sleep Of Ages wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:21 pm
Daric, I don't know if I envy your patience or pity your masochism. Or perhaps even be concerned.
I am sure you do a great favor to Jliat's wife tho, "Yeah, go play the great objector philosopher bringer of light with your noise internet buddies, dear".
:lol:

my wife: "are you arguing with jliat again?"

:lol:

i think the mental gymnastics keep him from sliding even faster into delerium, the insults keep him coming back

im practically a fucking saint

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Re: Brazil!!!

Post by killing raven sun » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:34 am

Brazilians voted to make Jair Bolsonaro their next president despite a serious amount of evidence that he doesn’t like gay people, or black people, or female people. Which begs the question: how bad was the other guy?
:lol:


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Re: Brazil!!!

Post by Sleep Of Ages » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:02 pm

killing raven sun wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:34 am
Brazilians voted to make Jair Bolsonaro their next president despite a serious amount of evidence that he doesn’t like gay people, or black people, or female people. Which begs the question: how bad was the other guy?
:lol:
Or how bad have we become.

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