Nothing exists

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MKULTRA
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Re: Nothing exists

Post by MKULTRA » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:38 am

So how is it that art can not be superseded? Cezane, Monet, Kandinsky, Malevich, Pollock, Rauschenberg, Warhol .....
To a certain degree these artists produced work that superseded previous styles or movements.

Edit: re-thinking my premise already because of this....

jliat wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:24 am


There is no 'explanation'. Unlike science, even pseudoscience, art is not about explanations.





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Re: Nothing exists

Post by jliat » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:56 am

MKULTRA wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:38 am
So how is it that art can not be superseded? Cezane, Monet, Kandinsky, Malevich, Pollock, Rauschenberg, Warhol .....
To a certain degree these artists produced work that superseded previous styles or movements.

Edit: re-thinking my premise already because of this....

jliat wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:24 am


There is no 'explanation'. Unlike science, even pseudoscience, art is not about explanations.




I'm very aware of that idea, it was one i once thought to be true, one of its most radical expressions in Kosuth's famous essay Aer aftter philosohy, which is online. For quite sometime i've thought differently.

Most recently we were in paris, and in the history of mankind museum and looking at horse and bison carvings on ivory, they were 'alive'...
and the recent show of abstract expressionism in london. Blew me away.

Or the more recent Tate Picasso 1932. Several galleries from more or less just one year... just one year!!!! or a Bach Cello suite 1 in G...
Reich 18 musicians...

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Re: Nothing exists

Post by MKULTRA » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:28 am

Baldesarri caused my 10th grade art teacher considerable grief.

Image[/size]

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Re: Nothing exists

Post by jliat » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:11 am

Baldessari is making a 'beautiful' conceptual piece here, as elsewhere, he is being 'truthful' and at the same time ironic. I'd say a tipping point in the very tradition with which he is (conceptually) working. The idea of a tradition, Ad Reinhardt also saw himself as such, though not ironically, though his paintings being ultimate gave them a description, I think from Kosuth, as the last paintings, as Art, that anyone could make. That working within a 'tradition' of Western art was a given, not only in fine art but in music,Cage's teacher was amongst others Schoenberg... It was a break with this tradition, for various reasons that brought about the end of 'modernity' and the beginning of post-modernity. Though many dislike this idea, the idea of 'progress' in the arts is difficult to now maintain some forty plus years on. Empty galleries, blank canvases, noise and silence are no longer new and shocking.

A Gothic cathedral has as much relevance as a Corbusier apartment, or for me much more as an aesthetic object. Whereas the Moderns condemned the Victorian Pastiche's of the Gothic, now I don't think such a condemnation would be as unified. The aesthetic of Westminster Abbey might be real and the houses of Parliament opposite once thought a pastiche, but now both buildings represent an aesthetic which is not one of distaste. And the high rise machines for living in have not solved the social problems they promised. And in many places have been and are being demolished.

More than this western art, music,thought is no longer held up to be the 'best'. And the idea of a scientific progress in culture though still held by some is no longer all pervasive.

For me the institutions of western art, its elitism, serious music requires academic study and authority has alienated many from the means and confidence to make their own art. For which noise was the most freeing of genres. No need for skill, or anything, just maybe the desire to make a noise. Which is why last year I felt the liberation of seeing the so called primitive art in the Musée du quai Branly in contrast to the elitism on display in the Centre Pompidou...


And obviously IMO!......

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Re: Nothing exists

Post by fire » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:45 am

jliat wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:56 am
Most recently we were in paris, and in the history of mankind museum and looking at horse and bison carvings on ivory, they were 'alive'...
wrong
broadcasting from the post-internet wasteland

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Re: Nothing exists

Post by MKULTRA » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:14 am



Successful art changes our understanding of the conventions by altering our perceptions - Sol Lewitt

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Re: Nothing exists

Post by jliat » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:57 am

“I can't wait to get into a position to make really bad art and get away with it”. - Damien Hirst

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Re: Nothing exists

Post by jliat » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:04 am

"A lot of my work is about sales." - Jeff Koons

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Re: Nothing exists

Post by MKULTRA » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:55 am

Andy Warhol...........

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Re: Nothing exists

Post by MKULTRA » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:17 am

fire wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:45 am
jliat wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:56 am
Most recently we were in paris, and in the history of mankind museum and looking at horse and bison carvings on ivory, they were 'alive'...
wrong
One usually understands the art of the past by applying the convention of the present, thus misunderstanding the art of the past - Sol Lewitt

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Re: Nothing exists

Post by jliat » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:19 am


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Re: Nothing exists

Post by jliat » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:50 am

Apparently in his final years Rothko would cross the street so he would not have to see Andy Warhol on the New York streets where they both lived.

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Re: Nothing exists

Post by jliat » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:56 am

“These pictures are bad. The Andy Warhols are very bad.” - Francis Bacon.

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Re: Nothing exists

Post by jliat » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:14 am

'Warhol’s Brillo boxes and Duchamp’s readymades demonstrated to Danto that art had no discernible direction in which to progress.
The grand narrative of progression — of one movement reacting to another — had ended. Art had reached a post-historical state.
All that remains is pure theory:'


"When art internalizes its own history, when it becomes self-conscious of its history
as it has come to be in our time, so that its consciousness of its history forms part
of its nature, it is perhaps unavoidable that it should turn into philosophy at last.
And when it does so, well, in an important sense, art comes to an end."

Of course, there will go on being art-making. But art-makers, living in what I like to call the post-historical
period of art, will bring into existence works which lack the historical importance or meaning we have
for a long time come to expect […] The story comes to an end, but not the characters, who live on,
happily ever after doing whatever they do in their post-narrational insignificance […]
The age of pluralism is upon us…when one direction is as good as another....
Arthur Danto.

"If someone calls it art, it's art" - Don Judd

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Re: Nothing exists

Post by MKULTRA » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:48 am

Rauschenberg - Erased De Kooning.




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