batshit crazy

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jliat
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batshit crazy

Post by jliat » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:39 pm

So people in the UK are batshit crazy because the police
arrest someone who it seems has just killed someone.
Whereas people in the USA people buy semi automatic weapons and shoot students,
people in gay bars, the police regularly shoot
black citizens. Though these things do happen in the UK, in the USA around 16,000
intentional homicides in 2015, UK 600 in 2014. Deaths from firearms per 1000,
USA 10.45, UK 0.23....

So to allow people with diagnosed issues to buy guns and ammo is not
just OK - its an enshrined right. To arrest someone who has just killed someone
is batshit crazy.

It gets better / worse...
The United States has had more mass shootings than any other country.
Between 1966 and 2012, 292 public mass shootings (defined as four or more victims
and excluding gang killings or domestic violence) occurred across the world: 90 of these,
or 31% of the total, took place in the United States.
Now here is where logic might help. Though one might feel safer owning a gun
and living in a country where one can shoot more or less anyone in ones home
one suspects of being an intruder than one where owning a gun is far more
difficult, and its use in such circumstances liable to prosecution, the stats show
otherwise.

Which country's citizens are more batshit crazy?

(apologise for any mistakes in grammar)

MKULTRA
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Re: batshit crazy

Post by MKULTRA » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:14 am


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Re: batshit crazy

Post by amishrobots » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:33 pm

From the people I've talked to around here, (neighbours, friends, co-workers, etc.) who are most opposed to gun control, the one argument I seem to hear most often is: "The Second Amendment was intended to protect the citizens from their own government."

I think most Americans (myself not excluded) have a pretty serious mistrust of our government in general.

ANY attempt at controlling the sale,ownership,use,etc of guns is seen as an attempt to disarm the citizenry (they just wanna take away our guns!) It's very much a "slippery slope" mentality. Politicians who offer even the most meager, sensible restrictions on firearms are generally going to be seen as power-hungry "commies" who want to control us, destroy our freedom, turn us all into pets, or whatever.

So they see their right to own a few assault rifles as their defence against tyranny. I have tried telling several of these people that the government has tanks, flamethrowers, rocket launchers, nuclear missiles, drones, a whole giant military, etc. but somehow all of them seem to think that its totally reasonable to believe that a bunch of civilians owning ak-47s is somehow crucial to preserving, or restoring our freedom against tyranny.

As for myself, I would love to have an AK-47, a Makarov pistol, and a few other neat guns (can't afford them) but I don't pretend any of that stuff is going to save my ass if the U.S. Gov't, or even the local police, decide that I am an enemy. I believe that our best defence against tyranny is not the 2nd Amendment, but the FIRST Amendment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Ame ... ution#Text

The First Amendment recognizes freedom of the Press, freedom of Speech, the right to peaceably assemble, and the right to petition the Government. Without the right of Free Speech, we have not the right to ask for any other. And without the right to share knowledge, to communicate, to report what is going on, how would we know what to ask for anyway?

As for the Freedom of Religion, I think that in the context of it's inclusion in the 1st Amendment, it can be interpreted broadly today as saying "the government has no right to tell you what to believe." Any religion can surely have a powerful influence on the minds of those who adhere to its practice, to the point where quite often reason and logic may be ignored in favor of faith. The idea of a government establishing an official state religion would certainly represent an attempt at controlling the beliefs of the populace, or at the very least, recognizing certain beliefs over others.
Last edited by amishrobots on Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: batshit crazy

Post by amishrobots » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:54 pm

So why are so many Americans "bat-shit crazy" for their guns?

Because the NRA, and the Republican half of our great, two-faced "Democratic" Republic has convinced them that guns are fundamental to protecting our freedom. You might also notice our somewhat rabid support for the U.S. military? We seem to live in a paradigm where freedom can only be protected by violence.

I find it amusing how many of the same people who believe that the 2nd amendment is a crucial tool for defending themselves against the gov't, also seem to believe that billions of dollars in military spending by our gov't is crucial for defending our freedom against terrorists. If you see your own gun collection as defence against the government, then why are you so keen on making sure that government is armed to the teeth?

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Re: batshit crazy

Post by jliat » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:19 pm

For my part I think the only reasonable explanation for the relation between Guns and Americans (USA) is that it is unreasonable. Maybe its an inherent insecurity of being relative newcomers to what was at times a hostile land. Maybe there is still the rebellious individualism of the minute men. Then the more obvious Freudian aspects of guns. Add to that the idea of the ordinary guy as hero, in Hollywood... Die Hard... etc. the myth of the wild west cowboy hero... valorization of violent criminals like Bonnie and Clyde. The idea of the gun as equalizer... (the colt?). So there is little or no respect for authority which has traces still in Europe...

Is this a good or bad thing. I mean bad things happen, but being rational rather than emotional. Banning guns would save a few hundred lives, a universal speed limit would save 1.5 million a year. Conclusion, humans are nuts.

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Re: batshit crazy

Post by amishrobots » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:21 am

jliat wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:19 pm
For my part I think the only reasonable explanation for the relation between Guns and Americans (USA) is that it is unreasonable. Maybe its an inherent insecurity of being relative newcomers to what was at times a hostile land. Maybe there is still the rebellious individualism of the minute men. Then the more obvious Freudian aspects of guns. Add to that the idea of the ordinary guy as hero, in Hollywood... Die Hard... etc. the myth of the wild west cowboy hero... valorization of violent criminals like Bonnie and Clyde. The idea of the gun as equalizer... (the colt?). So there is little or no respect for authority which has traces still in Europe...
These are some good points. Certainly we idolize our Revolutionary War heroes as ordinary folks sneaking around the woods with their hunting rifles to take on a superior British army, a glorification of the underdog seen again in Die Hard, and countless other movies. Yeah, we love our underdogs, and we love our "one man army" scenarios; in everything from "Mr Smith Goes to Washington" to "Rambo". "The Bad News Bears", "David and Goliath" We just love to see the "losers" beat the "winners", but that's just human nature eh?

Wouldn't you love to hear Merzbow or Masonna, or perhaps an artist from this forum perhaps, being played on Top Ten Clear Channel Radio? I'd love to see a harsh noise album go platinum...

The David & Goliath scenario is universal, but sadly there are many who seemed to have watched more "Rambo" than "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" You're probably right in thinking there is a strong Freudian aspect here. I can't really otherwise explain my own burning desire to own a tommy gun. It would be totally useless to me in my daily life, but oh, so much fun... I just want to hold that big phallic symbol in my hands and spray it's leaden seed all over my faux vaginal targets while yelling "Say hello to my little friend!" But I cannot pretend that doing so really protects my "American Freedom" in any way.
jliat wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:19 pm
Is this a good or bad thing. I mean bad things happen, but being rational rather than emotional. Banning guns would save a few hundred lives, a universal speed limit would save 1.5 million a year. Conclusion, humans are nuts.
I think maybe you've hit on the real issue here: Freedom versus Safety.





Freedom leads to innovation, progress. but how do we determine which freedoms are most important? Who has the right to determine which freedoms are more important to human welfare than safety? Who profits?

I mean, who profits from that balance between safety (control) and freedom (danger)? I have to assume that the NRA is in collusion with Smith&Wesson etc. So is Ajit Pai a lobbyist for ISPs.

The argument over 2nd amendment rights is a great distraction from teh battle over 1st amendment rights.

I want my right to have crazy guns, but it's not worth losing my right to know how to make those guns. Knowledge is simply more powerful than access to firearms. With guns I can shoot, but with knowledge I can make my own damn weapons.

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Re: batshit crazy

Post by amishrobots » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:42 am

if safety prevailed, nuclear weapons would not exist.

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jliat
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Re: batshit crazy

Post by jliat » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:42 am


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Re: batshit crazy

Post by fire » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:43 am

jliat wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:19 pm
For my part I think the only reasonable explanation for the relation between Guns and Americans (USA) is that it is unreasonable.
wrong
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