What is math?

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fire
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Re: What is math?

Post by fire » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:49 am

fire wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:23 am
wow, so you dont understand that faith is worship?
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Re: What is math?

Post by fire » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:15 am

yeah, didnt think so, because then you have to realize that faith grows from need, a longing, and salvation is it

but if you dont need salvation faith is irrelevant, your works are true

only the faithful need change for salvation
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Re: What is math?

Post by xdugef » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:44 am


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jliat
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Re: What is math?

Post by jliat » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:37 pm

fire wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:15 am
yeah, didnt think so, because then you have to realize that faith grows from need, a longing, and salvation is it

but if you dont need salvation faith is irrelevant, your works are true

only the faithful need change for salvation
All of which might be true. But we were not discussing either your or my ideas regarding faith or salvation but those found in Christianity and Judaism. Where i pointed out that the idea "the whole point of the bible is to give people a reason to worship with a reward of salvation" is wrong because the idea of an afterlife and salvation was not found in early Judaism. Notably the text attributed to King Solomon who supposedly built the first temple to worship YHWH makes it fairly clear in Ecclesiastes.

Roughly no matter how good or bad one is you die and are forgotten. This can come as a surprise to those like yourself who just rely on some 'taken for granted' notions of religion and the books of the bible. It's probably the first written Nihilism.

So you may think the whole point "NOW" is salvation but that was not the motivation for much of the texts. I mean take "Numbers" and guess what the point of that is...... or The Song of Solomon. (its about sex) :roll: No wonder the RC church banned it for so long, i.e. burnt those caught translating it into a form ordinary people could read...

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Re: What is math?

Post by fire » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:17 am

one last time

religion is for salvation.

for most it is while among men, not in the afterlife

death has nothing to do with it

you are stupid.
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Re: What is math?

Post by jliat » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:36 am

fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:17 am
one last time
You are probably wrong on this as well as all the other stuff...
fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:17 am
religion is for salvation.
For you it might be and also others but in early Judaism it was not.
There are very specific texts that show the belief was with death there was nothing.
"For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:17 am
for most it is while among men, not in the afterlife
In your opinion, but for the majority on the planet religion offers some form of salvation after death... and history and
archeology shows it has been so for thousands of years, what do you think the pyramids were built for?
fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:17 am
death has nothing to do with it
Again In your opinion, but for the majority on the planet it does... complex funeral rites etc.
fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:17 am
you are stupid.
Again in your opinion. Its what you call people who show you to be wrong.

Now see if it is one last time :wink: :wink:

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Re: What is math?

Post by fire » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:37 am

math is an imperfect language trying to describe perfection

math uses the finite to try and explain the infinite
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Re: What is math?

Post by jliat » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:52 am

fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:37 am
math is an imperfect language trying to describe perfection
Depends what you mean by perfection. But i'd agree that for some, myself included maths is not adequate for descriptions.
fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:37 am
math uses the finite to try and explain the infinite
There i disagree. Maths does very well decribing the different infinities. IMO though we can never experience infinity as such.
We are finite.

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Re: What is math?

Post by fire » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:08 am

fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:37 am
math is an imperfect language trying to describe perfection

math uses the finite to try and explain the infinite
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Re: What is math?

Post by jliat » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:45 am

fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:08 am
fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:37 am
math is an imperfect language trying to describe perfection

math uses the finite to try and explain the infinite

Depends what you mean by perfection...
maths has very subtle and complex descriptions of the hierarches of infinities.

Cantor is a relatively unknown genius.

So in many cases it can employ the infinite to explain and show how the infinite is so different to the finite- so for amusement,
lets take the set of whole numbers between 1 and 10

That is finite.. a set of 10

123456789 ..10

The set of odd numbers from 1 to 10

1 3 5 7 9 finite of 5 - half of the set of whole numbers...

What about the infinite set of whole numbers... 1 2 3 4.......

And the infinite set of odd numbers 1 3 5 7 9 11 13.......

It might be thought the whole set was larger than the odd set, but mathematics of Cantor shows not,
because we can pair all the infinite whole numbers with all the set of infinite odd numbers...


1 - 1
2 - 3
3 - 5
4 - 7
5 - 9
6 - 11

We can always find an odd number to pair with any whole odd/even number...

Which to some seems strange... infinity doesn't behave like the finite..

And you can have 'perfect' numbers...
In number theory, a perfect number is a positive integer that is equal to the sum of its proper positive divisors,
The first perfect number is 6. Its proper divisors are 1, 2, and 3, and 1 + 2 + 3 = 6. Equivalently, the number 6 is equal to half the sum of all its positive divisors: ( 1 + 2 + 3 + 6 ) / 2 = 6. The next perfect number is 28 = 1 + 2 + 4 + 7 + 14. This is followed by the perfect numbers 496 and 8128

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Re: What is math?

Post by fire » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:15 am

fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:08 am
fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:37 am
math is an imperfect language trying to describe perfection

math uses the finite to try and explain the infinite
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jliat
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Re: What is math?

Post by jliat » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:37 am

fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:15 am
fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:08 am
fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:37 am
one last time
then posted 3 more times

Daric your arithmetic is a bit wonky... plus you seem stuck in some loop...

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fire
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Re: What is math?

Post by fire » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:41 am

fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:15 am
fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:08 am
fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:37 am
math is an imperfect language trying to describe perfection

math uses the finite to try and explain the infinite
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jliat
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Re: What is math?

Post by jliat » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:48 am

jliat wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:37 am
fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:15 am
fire wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:08 am
then posted 4 more times

Daric your arithmetic is a bit wonky... plus you seem stuck in some loop...

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fire
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Re: What is math?

Post by fire » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:55 am

lol, you cant even quote right

sad puppy
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