What is math?

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jliat
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Re: What is math?

Post by jliat » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:19 am

fire wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:08 am
jliat wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:43 am
Specifically some believe salvation is predetermined, that is some will go to hell others will not, no matter what they do, how good or bad they are.
wrong, specifically, nobody thinks this, liar
The Belgic Confession of 1561 affirmed that God "delivers and preserves" from perdition "all whom he, in his eternal and unchangeable council, of mere goodness hath elected in Christ Jesus our Lord, without respect to their works" (Article XVI). Calvinists believe that God picked those who he will save and bring with him to Heaven before the world was created. They also believe that those people God does not save will go to Hell. John Calvin thought people who were saved could never lose their salvation and the "elect" (those God saved)
fire wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:08 am
jliat wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:43 am
Some Christians think that hell's gates were broken and those inside freed when Jesus descended into hell, its in one of the creeds.
lol, no they dont, you cant provide one example, liar
The Harrowing of Hell is referred to in the Apostles' Creed and the Athanasian Creed (Quicumque vult) which state that Jesus Christ "descended into Hell"....

The icon depicts Jesus, vested in white and gold to symbolize his divine majesty, standing on the brazen gates of Hades (also called the "Doors of Death"), which are broken and have fallen in the form of a cross, illustrating the belief that by his death on the cross, Jesus "trampled down death by death"

apokatastasis,- The Anathema against apocatastasis, or more accurately, against the belief that hell is not eternal, was not ratified despite support from the Emperor, and it is absent from the Anathemas spoken against Origen at Constantinople II.
The Alexandrian school adapted Platonic terminology and ideas to Christianity while explaining and differentiating the new faith from all the others. Proponents cited Biblical passage in 1 Corinthians 15:28, When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

the New Westminster Dictionary of Church History presenting him as speculating that the apocatastasis would involve universal salvation.
In early Christian theological usage apocatastasis meant the ultimate restoration of all things to their original state, Both Origen and Gregory of Nyssa hoped that all creatures would be saved. The word was still very flexible at that time, but in the mid-6th century it became virtually a technical term referring, as usually today, to a specifically Origenistic doctrine of universal salvation.
fire wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:08 am
as for the electric universe, as evidence, there is literally everything, your inability to understand this does not change its validity
"everything" is hardly a proof, but one that certainly is used by the religious, that every exists - is often used as proof of a creator. A "proof" no different to yours for an electric universe. Its not a question of my inability to understand, for the 'everything' proof as above can be used by anyone for anything. That is your inability to give evidence. Every thing proves anything and nothing...
fire wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:08 am

i have offered you proof, but you ignore, so once again, if you want proof, prove it to yourself and name one thing that is not measured electrically
Without comparison (i.e. everything is...) no measurement at all is possible... so name me one thing that can be measured...
fire wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:08 am
your action at this point has been to deflect, which means you are just trolling, this is the truth
My action has been to give examples of the various ideas in Christianity which you seem ignorant of.

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Re: What is math?

Post by fire » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:01 am

you cite political documents not based on any theology to prove your point, nice try

now point to any religious organization that says you can do whatever you want and still go to heaven

moldy old political treatsies dont count as nobody considers those the word of god



and, yet more deflection from answering the question "is anything nonelectric?"

your convoluted philosophy is worth nothing in the real world
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Re: What is math?

Post by fire » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:03 am

just a heads up, will be busy for a week or so, abuse yourself if i seem absent
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Re: What is math?

Post by jliat » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:28 am

fire wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:01 am
you cite political documents not based on any theology to prove your point, nice try

now point to any religious organization that says you can do whatever you want and still go to heaven

moldy old political treatsies dont count as nobody considers those the word of god



and, yet more deflection from answering the question "is anything nonelectric?"

your convoluted philosophy is worth nothing in the real world
No philosophy - no- politics - but doctrines - texts , icons etc from of the history of Christianity - still believed by some today.

And I have pointed to religions which did consider just that and some which still do...

As i say your belief is like a faith - cannot be doubted and you will reject anyone who does... but as i say if it floats your boat - fine...

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Re: What is math?

Post by jliat » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:30 am

fire wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:03 am
just a heads up, will be busy for a week or so, abuse yourself if i seem absent
You seem absent even when you are here. Nothing gets trough...

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Re: What is math?

Post by fire » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:11 pm

jliat wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:28 am
No philosophy - no- politics - but doctrines - texts , icons etc from of the history of Christianity - still believed by some today.
wrong, mostly politics
jliat wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:28 am
And I have pointed to religions which did consider just that and some which still do...
double wrong, you referenced speculative theology not incorporated into any active religious worship, scholars are not religion

you want to quote authoritative text, use the bible, the only document ascribed to god
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Re: What is math?

Post by jliat » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:46 pm

fire wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:11 pm
jliat wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:28 am
No philosophy - no- politics - but doctrines - texts , icons etc from of the history of Christianity - still believed by some today.
wrong, mostly politics
jliat wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:28 am
And I have pointed to religions which did consider just that and some which still do...
double wrong, you referenced speculative theology not incorporated into any active religious worship, scholars are not religion

you want to quote authoritative text, use the bible, the only document ascribed to god
Perhaps Laura knows best how to deal with you.

But for your information Calvin was certainly active in worship and formed a form of Christianity still practiced today.
I also reference early Christians, various active figures in the church.

Active worship - the creeds i cited are read everyday by practicing Christians across the world. The Apostles' Creed and the Athanasian Creed..

As for the bible, there is not a definitive one for all Christians and other texts and objects and acts are also considered divine. i.e. The Eucharist and the Sacraments (believed by RCs to have been instituted by Jesus / AKA God).. The main figure in the NT wrote not a single word. But is believed to have descended into hell ... And again you missed quotes from the bible... 1 Peter 3:19–20, Ephesians 4:9.

And finally as for authority - for Catholics that lies with the Pope.
Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that, in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error "when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church."
But not for other Christians...

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Re: What is math?

Post by MKULTRA » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:53 pm

MKULTRA wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:41 pm
fire wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:28 am
jliat wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:43 am
Racial antisemitism...
was created by the jew cult to cover for their abominable behavior
What about the Biblical Israelites?

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Re: What is math?

Post by fire » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:02 am

calvinism still serves up salvation

not sure you are sure what your point is

all religions serve salvation, why else would people follow?
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Re: What is math?

Post by jliat » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:22 am

fire wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:02 am
calvinism still serves up salvation

not sure you are sure what your point is

all religions serve salvation, why else would people follow?
Sorry but you are wrong yet again. OT 'Biblical Israelites' - The Sadducees did not believe in salvation or resurrection.
Unlike the Pharisees and JC who did. The former being more inline with modern day Jewish faith.

And its an interesting point whether Buddhism has salvation rather than a kind of oblivion. Certainly certain sorts.

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Re: What is math?

Post by fire » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:29 am

jliat wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:22 am
fire wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:02 am
calvinism still serves up salvation

not sure you are sure what your point is

all religions serve salvation, why else would people follow?
Sorry but you are wrong yet again. OT 'Biblical Israelites' - The Sadducees did not believe in salvation or resurrection.
Unlike the Pharisees and JC who did. The former being more inline with modern day Jewish faith.
bullshit, you cant just make shit up to prove your point, try again
jliat wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:22 am
And its an interesting point whether Buddhism has salvation rather than a kind of oblivion. Certainly certain sorts.
i think ending personal suffering probably equates to salvation, but no matter, as buddhism isnt a religion
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Re: What is math?

Post by jliat » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:09 am

fire wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:29 am
jliat wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:22 am
fire wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:02 am
calvinism still serves up salvation

not sure you are sure what your point is

all religions serve salvation, why else would people follow?
Sorry but you are wrong yet again. OT 'Biblical Israelites' - The Sadducees did not believe in salvation or resurrection.
Unlike the Pharisees and JC who did. The former being more inline with modern day Jewish faith.
bullshit, you cant just make shit up to prove your point, try again

The Sadducees refused to go beyond the written Torah (first five books of the Bible) and thus, unlike the Pharisees, denied the immortality of the soul, bodily resurrection after death, and the existence of angelic spirits.


Luke 20:27 27Some of the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus with a question.
Acts 23:8 8(The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees believe all these things.)
Mark 12:18-27 18Then the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question.
The proof is out there... if you have eyes to see...

Ecclesiastes 9 (The Wisdom of Solomon O.T.) :
for a living dog is better than a dead lion. 5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

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Re: What is math?

Post by fire » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:16 am

jliat wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:09 am
Luke 20:27 27Some of the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus with a question.
nice try at redirect, not talking about ressurection, the subject is salvation through worship, try to stay on topic clem
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Re: What is math?

Post by jliat » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:40 am

fire wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:16 am
jliat wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:09 am
Luke 20:27 27Some of the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus with a question.
nice try at redirect, not talking about ressurection, the subject is salvation through worship, try to stay on topic clem
Maybe you missed title of this thread... so we strayed from the subject.... and no not through worship, again you made a mistake, in Christianity generally salvation isnt something one can do for oneself by worship. And in particular in Calvinism.

Galatians 2:15-21 15"We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

The other point is you said all religion is about salvation, again you were ignorant. Not in the case of the Sadducees!

So i'm not sure who you think you are talking to and about what. You appear to think you are talking to Luke about something youve made up in your head.....

I'm saying that it is not true that all religions are about salvation by worship, and christianity is one of them...and the evidence is out there if you want to see it and not just delude yourself.

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Re: What is math?

Post by fire » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:52 am

jliat wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:40 am
Galatians 2:15-21 15"We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
you dont have very good reading comprehension
jliat wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:40 am
The other point is you said all religion is about salvation, again you were ignorant. Not in the case of the Sadducees!
once again, bullshit, your made up opinion is just that
jliat wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:40 am
I'm saying that it is not true that all religions are about salvation by worship
yes they are, religion serves no other purpose, you are a moron
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