Did Jesus Exist?

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Did Jesus Exist?

Yes
1
14%
No
6
86%
Maybe
0
No votes
Yes, but not like the Bible portrays him
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 7

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fire
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Re: Did Jesus Exist?

Post by fire » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:14 am

jliat wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:50 am
This thread was about Jesus, now this Jesus is known to us via the NT.
for being into books you sure dont know much about them
And his bowels become full with abominable filthiness, with oozing streams of decay; and multitudes of abominable worms have their habitation there. And his eyes grow dim, till dark night enshrouds them, and his ears become stopped, like the silence of the grave. And last of all shall the erring Son of Man lose life.
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Re: Did Jesus Exist?

Post by jliat » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:39 am

deleted...
Last edited by jliat on Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Did Jesus Exist?

Post by jliat » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:16 am

jliat wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:39 am
fire wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:14 am
jliat wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:50 am
This thread was about Jesus, now this Jesus is known to us via the NT.
for being into books you sure dont know much about them
And his bowels become full with abominable filthiness, with oozing streams of decay; and multitudes of abominable worms have their habitation there. And his eyes grow dim, till dark night enshrouds them, and his ears become stopped, like the silence of the grave. And last of all shall the erring Son of Man lose life.
It's not about books it's your poor reasoning skills. I'm aware of Gnosticism. But the term "son of man" as opposed to "son of God" was used by Jesus, but its from Daniel in the OT. So i'm puzzled at you raising this - maybe to distract from your many blunders.

Jesus is a character with certain attributes, like his alledged teaching, being raised to heven, not your fictions. His existetace as a real living being not altering the others. Micky Mouse is a mouse- a fictional one.

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Re: Did Jesus Exist?

Post by jliat » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:51 am

fire wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:14 am

And his bowels become full with abominable filthiness, with oozing streams of decay; and multitudes of abominable worms have their habitation there. And his eyes grow dim, till dark night enshrouds them, and his ears become stopped, like the silence of the grave. And last of all shall the erring Son of Man lose life.
Of the author of the book you cited-
"When University of Lund theologian Per Beskow investigated Szekely's claims in Strange Tales About Jesus, both the Vatican and the National Library of Vienna denied that the original manuscripts existed. The Vatican also denied that Szekely had ever been admitted to the Vatican Archives in 1923. "

Just like the electric sun hypothesis - snake oil and fakery which collapses under any proper scrutiny.

But the fake 'The Essene gospel of peace' has Jesus using the phrase "pages of a book" which is interesting, books with pages first appeared 100 AD and were not in use until about 300 AD and then by Christians not Jews. Even today the Torah is kept as scrolls.

The text has Jesus quoting from letters of St Paul..

And Matthew where love of money becomes love of Satan.

The coinage Jesus uses is drachma in the fake text - a greek coin, the coins around at the time of Jesus in Palestine were Roman with ceasars head on them.

The more obvious - though it requires book reading! is the text resembles nothing like the dialogues in the NT.

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Re: Did Jesus Exist?

Post by fire » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:41 am

jliat wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:51 am
snake oil
used as perjorative by an ignorant racist, nice job
The original snake oil came from Chinese water snakes and was used in China as a treatment for arthritis, bursitis, and other joint pains. It is believed to have been brought to North America during the Gold Rush in the mid-1800s.

The oil, which was really fat that was taken from the snakes, was actually studied in the 1980s and found to be full of omega-3 fatty acids. Of course, we know omega-3 fatty acids are prescribed today to reduce inflammation (which can lead to arthritis), reduce blood pressure and more.
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Re: Did Jesus Exist?

Post by jliat » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:17 am

fire wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:41 am
jliat wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:51 am
snake oil
used as perjorative by an ignorant racist, nice job
The original snake oil came from Chinese water snakes and was used in China as a treatment for arthritis, bursitis, and other joint pains. It is believed to have been brought to North America during the Gold Rush in the mid-1800s.

The oil, which was really fat that was taken from the snakes, was actually studied in the 1980s and found to be full of omega-3 fatty acids. Of course, we know omega-3 fatty acids are prescribed today to reduce inflammation (which can lead to arthritis), reduce blood pressure and more.
So apart from the use of the expression Snake Oil, you let my other criticism go. I'll remember not to use it again. :roll:

Though like your other quote from Szekely you do edit out the bits to suit you "Snake oil is a fraudulent liniment without snake extract. Currently, it has come to refer to any product with questionable or unverifiable quality or benefit. By extension, a snake oil salesman is someone who knowingly sells fraudulent goods or who is a fraud, quack, or charlatan."

So the term is not pejorative or racist in its wiki description, or is the Son of Man you quoted referring to Jesus.

In the Szekely quote he is "quoting" Jesus referring to the sons of men who follow Satan, not to Jesus. :huh:

" a snake oil salesman is someone who knowingly sells fraudulent goods or who is a fraud, quack, or charlatan."

Hmmm - if the hat fits.....

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Re: Did Jesus Exist?

Post by amishrobots » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:04 am

jliat wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:41 am
fire wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:57 am

wrong. god demands obedience, if you disobey the punishment is death, the idea of atonement was fabricated by priests to appeal to sinners who otherwise feel doomed, it is a human re action to the idea that there is no freedom, only gods law, thereby allowing one to break the law while retaining a path back to divinity
Might be true of the "god" in your head but that isn't the God in the NT which is a trinity.
John 1:29
The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
fire wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:57 am
this always makes me lol, the concept that god could somehow be deficient, unable to communicate his message properly, the anthropomorphic god that hates and tortures, this is a god that didnt need inventing

if god is love, how can it be party to suffering? if god causes suffering is it the god of love?
The god of old testament was supposed to be all-seeing, future and past. Why would he make such rules only to allow revocation later? Makes no fucking sense. If you know the end of the story, you plan accordingly. get the rules right from the start; not change them twelve times throughout the game

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Re: Did Jesus Exist?

Post by amishrobots » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:07 am

y'all need <s>Jesus</s> RationalWiki.Org

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Re: Did Jesus Exist?

Post by jliat » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:13 am

amishrobots wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:04 am

The god of old testament was supposed to be all-seeing, future and past. Why would he make such rules only to allow revocation later? Makes no fucking sense. If you know the end of the story, you plan accordingly. get the rules right from the start; not change them twelve times throughout the game
That is a good point and a similar one is why is there evil if God is good. To which there are several answers.

1. It makes no fucking sense to us humans, but god created reason and is beyond that. Found in Job.

2.Creation is painful, like childbirth - found in St Paul.

3.God creates the best of all possible worlds. Leibnitz.

4. God might know the end but his creation doesn't. He wants us to be both free and good. Its like a parent who allows his child to learn lessons about life and not protect him from evil. That's Buddha... Siddhartha sees the evil and thus begins his path...

5. Our vision is like looking though a dark glass... St Paul.

6. God created evil as well as good... Isaiah

7. The rules were not changed, punishment and justice are demanded. Hence the sacrifice of the lamb of God, an act of atonement. St John and elsewhere.

None of these are dualisms found in other religions where good and bad compete. Though the idea of Satan and the Devil does appear its not orthodox. So for instance the Gnostics claim the God of the OT wasn't the true god but the Demiurge whose creation is botched, but we humans have a divine spark in us ...

And the idea of God shifts through the OT. In genesis God is plural... The traditional OT idea was that one died and there was no life after death - Sadducees did not believe in heaven and resurection...

And similar ideas occur in other religions... the rise of science and horrors of the 20th C though do place any 'excuses' as questionable.

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Re: Did Jesus Exist?

Post by fire » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:26 am

jliat wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:13 am
the googles are the messiah, they tell me what to think and post, words are awesome
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Re: Did Jesus Exist?

Post by jliat » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:25 am

sadman wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:13 am
the googles are the messiah, they tell me what to think and post, words are awesome

No mention of the messiah .... strawman - sadman.

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Re: Did Jesus Exist?

Post by fire » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:41 am

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Re: Did Jesus Exist?

Post by jliat » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:30 am

"Because the essence of technology is nothing technological, essential reflection upon technology and decisive confrontation with it must happen in a realm that is, on the one hand, akin to the essence of technology and, on the other, fundamentally different from it. Such a realm is ART."
- Martin Heidegger.

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Re: Did Jesus Exist?

Post by fire » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:20 am

jliat wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:30 am
Heidegger.
s = 0
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