hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

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hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by fire » Wed May 17, 2017 11:22 am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05 ... -suggests/
Dogs have a surprising ability to make humans understand what their barks and growls mean, a study has shown.

Women were better than men at recognising when a dog was being playful or threatening, or feeling fear, scientists discovered.

For the study, 40 volunteers listened to different growls recorded from 18 dogs that were guarding their food, facing a threatening stranger, or playing a tug-of-war game.

Overall, participants correctly classified 63 per cent of the growl samples - significantly more than would be expected by guesswork alone, said the researchers.

Each growl type was also recognised above chance level. The human listeners identified 81 per cent of the "play" growls but were less good at recognising food guarding and threatening growls.

Dr Tamas Farago and his team from Eotvos Lorand University in Hungary wrote in the journal Royal Society Open Science: "Participants associated the correct contexts with the growls above chance.

"Moreover, women and participants experienced with dogs scored higher in this task."

During play, dogs produced a larger number of shorter, less separated, growls than when they were aggressive or fearful, the research showed.

Play growls and food guarding growls also had distinctively different pitch characteristics.

As well as identifying growl contexts, the volunteers also had to rate growls on a sliding scale according to five emotional states - aggression, fear, despair, happiness and playfulness.

Context had a "significant effect" on reading dog emotions, said the scientists. Playful growls were rated lowest for aggression, and food guarding growls highest.

The scientists concluded: "Our results ... indicate that dogs communicate honestly their size and inner state in serious contest situations, where confrontation would be costly, such as during guarding of their food from another dog.

"At the same time, in contexts with assumedly more uncertain inner states, such as in play or when threatened by a stranger, they may manipulate certain key parameters in their growls for an exaggerated aggressive and playful expression.

"According to our results, adult humans seem to understand and respond accordingly to this acoustic information during cross-species interactions with dogs."
in contrast, no one has a fucking clue what jliat is saying
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Re: hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by jliat » Thu May 18, 2017 12:26 am

Well it's good to know you at least haven't a clue. It makes sense. So first off...

1. In making any serious assertion citing a newspaper, even a broadsheet* is not a reliable source. Don't do it.

(this goes also for popular science journals - better track down the actual paper and see that it has been peer reviewed.)

A feature of studying any topic is that the more one does the more one realizes what one does not know.

Example - most non artists know what art is. I bet most have some idea of what philosophy is, but once you begin to delve into these you will find it's never as simple as you first thought. You obviously don't delve but just make stuff up - which is cool. Astral projection and shit...art is about self expression... philosophy is about knowing stuff... art should be pretty... i'm OK with that.

And I long ago worked out about dogs. My first dog 'laughed' when I fell into a snow drift it knew was in front of us. The other two would look up from the sofa each morning as I left for work.... they always assumed I was going into the pub as we walked past... they could hear the fridge door opening 100 yards away... and were asleep!

*The big ones.

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Re: hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by fire » Thu May 18, 2017 6:21 am

jliat wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 12:26 am
Well it's good to know you at least haven't a clue. It makes sense. So first off...
starting with an insult, now youre on my level
jliat wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 12:26 am
1. In making any serious assertion citing a newspaper, even a broadsheet* is not a reliable source. Don't do it.
(this goes also for popular science journals - better track down the actual paper and see that it has been peer reviewed.)
there is more evidence for a man-god ruling from the clouds than there is for the veracity of peer review.
jliat wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 12:26 am
A feature of studying any topic is that the more one does the more one realizes what one does not know.
*results vary, your experience may not be transferable, no cash value
jliat wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 12:26 am
Example - most non artists know what art is. I bet most have some idea of what philosophy is, but once you begin to delve into these you will find it's never as simple as you first thought. You obviously don't delve but just make stuff up - which is cool. Astral projection and shit...art is about self expression... philosophy is about knowing stuff... art should be pretty... i'm OK with that.
confusing "think" and "know" is a common mistake so i will let you slide on this one
jliat wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 12:26 am
And I long ago worked out about dogs.
sure, thats why you argued that i couldnt understand my dogs
jliat wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 12:26 am
My first dog 'laughed' when I fell into a snow drift it knew was in front of us. The other two would look up from the sofa each morning as I left for work.... they always assumed I was going into the pub as we walked past... they could hear the fridge door opening 100 yards away... and were asleep!
cool story bro?
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Re: hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by jliat » Thu May 18, 2017 9:33 am

fire wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 6:21 am
starting with an insult, now youre on my level
Sorry it wasn't an insult, I was just echoing your remark - 'no one has a fucking clue' - and assumed you included yourself in that.
And i'm really not into levels.
fire wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 6:21 am
there is more evidence for a man-god ruling from the clouds than there is for the veracity of peer review.
Then please point me to this evidence. I've flown through quite a few clouds and never seen any 'man-god' and i'm not aware of being ruled by such a 'person'. Obviously he could be deluding me, but that's an old philosophical idea.
The cash value thing loses me -
fire wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 6:21 am
confusing "think" and "know" is a common mistake so i will let you slide on this one
I wasn't confusing - it was a kind of joke. Knowledge is not the subject of philosophy - literally it means 'The love of Knowledge'
Or better 'wisdom'. Both terms get 'tricky' when you 'think' about them. So I for one wouldn't let these slide.

Knowledge for me is more a kind of usefulness, I've no longer much time for fixed definitions, and there's the Gettier problem, which rocks some peoples boat, but not mine. 'Thinking' is on the face of it more simple, but then can computers think? I wrote a tic tac toe program awhile ago which 'learnt'. So the machine 'looked' at previous moves and there outcomes... was this thinking? I mean it made decisions. What really struck me is when playing with the program you could teach it by letting it win a few times to play better much quicker than if you simply tried to beat it. Which is how 'good' teaching works?

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Re: hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by fire » Thu May 18, 2017 9:53 am

jliat wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 9:33 am
fire wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 6:21 am
there is more evidence for a man-god ruling from the clouds than there is for the veracity of peer review.
Then please point me to this evidence. I've flown through quite a few clouds and never seen any 'man-god' and i'm not aware of being ruled by such a 'person'. Obviously he could be deluding me, but that's an old philosophical idea.
there is none...

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Re: hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by xdugef » Thu May 18, 2017 10:47 am

fire wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 6:21 am

there is more evidence for a man-god ruling from the clouds than there is for the veracity of peer review.
and on the plus side churchs are tax exempt!

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