hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

"Don't post anything racist/misogynistic/pornographic, loli images, or any animated GIFs and you should be fine, haha!" The Raytownian

Moderator: xome

User avatar
fire
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:15 pm
Location: noritual unformation

hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by fire » Wed May 17, 2017 11:22 am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05 ... -suggests/
Dogs have a surprising ability to make humans understand what their barks and growls mean, a study has shown.

Women were better than men at recognising when a dog was being playful or threatening, or feeling fear, scientists discovered.

For the study, 40 volunteers listened to different growls recorded from 18 dogs that were guarding their food, facing a threatening stranger, or playing a tug-of-war game.

Overall, participants correctly classified 63 per cent of the growl samples - significantly more than would be expected by guesswork alone, said the researchers.

Each growl type was also recognised above chance level. The human listeners identified 81 per cent of the "play" growls but were less good at recognising food guarding and threatening growls.

Dr Tamas Farago and his team from Eotvos Lorand University in Hungary wrote in the journal Royal Society Open Science: "Participants associated the correct contexts with the growls above chance.

"Moreover, women and participants experienced with dogs scored higher in this task."

During play, dogs produced a larger number of shorter, less separated, growls than when they were aggressive or fearful, the research showed.

Play growls and food guarding growls also had distinctively different pitch characteristics.

As well as identifying growl contexts, the volunteers also had to rate growls on a sliding scale according to five emotional states - aggression, fear, despair, happiness and playfulness.

Context had a "significant effect" on reading dog emotions, said the scientists. Playful growls were rated lowest for aggression, and food guarding growls highest.

The scientists concluded: "Our results ... indicate that dogs communicate honestly their size and inner state in serious contest situations, where confrontation would be costly, such as during guarding of their food from another dog.

"At the same time, in contexts with assumedly more uncertain inner states, such as in play or when threatened by a stranger, they may manipulate certain key parameters in their growls for an exaggerated aggressive and playful expression.

"According to our results, adult humans seem to understand and respond accordingly to this acoustic information during cross-species interactions with dogs."
in contrast, no one has a fucking clue what jliat is saying
[17,963] days since last fuck given

User avatar
jliat
Posts: 1449
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:34 am
Contact:

Re: hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by jliat » Thu May 18, 2017 12:26 am

Well it's good to know you at least haven't a clue. It makes sense. So first off...

1. In making any serious assertion citing a newspaper, even a broadsheet* is not a reliable source. Don't do it.

(this goes also for popular science journals - better track down the actual paper and see that it has been peer reviewed.)

A feature of studying any topic is that the more one does the more one realizes what one does not know.

Example - most non artists know what art is. I bet most have some idea of what philosophy is, but once you begin to delve into these you will find it's never as simple as you first thought. You obviously don't delve but just make stuff up - which is cool. Astral projection and shit...art is about self expression... philosophy is about knowing stuff... art should be pretty... i'm OK with that.

And I long ago worked out about dogs. My first dog 'laughed' when I fell into a snow drift it knew was in front of us. The other two would look up from the sofa each morning as I left for work.... they always assumed I was going into the pub as we walked past... they could hear the fridge door opening 100 yards away... and were asleep!

*The big ones.

User avatar
fire
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:15 pm
Location: noritual unformation

Re: hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by fire » Thu May 18, 2017 6:21 am

jliat wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 12:26 am
Well it's good to know you at least haven't a clue. It makes sense. So first off...
starting with an insult, now youre on my level
jliat wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 12:26 am
1. In making any serious assertion citing a newspaper, even a broadsheet* is not a reliable source. Don't do it.
(this goes also for popular science journals - better track down the actual paper and see that it has been peer reviewed.)
there is more evidence for a man-god ruling from the clouds than there is for the veracity of peer review.
jliat wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 12:26 am
A feature of studying any topic is that the more one does the more one realizes what one does not know.
*results vary, your experience may not be transferable, no cash value
jliat wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 12:26 am
Example - most non artists know what art is. I bet most have some idea of what philosophy is, but once you begin to delve into these you will find it's never as simple as you first thought. You obviously don't delve but just make stuff up - which is cool. Astral projection and shit...art is about self expression... philosophy is about knowing stuff... art should be pretty... i'm OK with that.
confusing "think" and "know" is a common mistake so i will let you slide on this one
jliat wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 12:26 am
And I long ago worked out about dogs.
sure, thats why you argued that i couldnt understand my dogs
jliat wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 12:26 am
My first dog 'laughed' when I fell into a snow drift it knew was in front of us. The other two would look up from the sofa each morning as I left for work.... they always assumed I was going into the pub as we walked past... they could hear the fridge door opening 100 yards away... and were asleep!
cool story bro?
[17,963] days since last fuck given

User avatar
jliat
Posts: 1449
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:34 am
Contact:

Re: hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by jliat » Thu May 18, 2017 9:33 am

fire wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 6:21 am
starting with an insult, now youre on my level
Sorry it wasn't an insult, I was just echoing your remark - 'no one has a fucking clue' - and assumed you included yourself in that.
And i'm really not into levels.
fire wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 6:21 am
there is more evidence for a man-god ruling from the clouds than there is for the veracity of peer review.
Then please point me to this evidence. I've flown through quite a few clouds and never seen any 'man-god' and i'm not aware of being ruled by such a 'person'. Obviously he could be deluding me, but that's an old philosophical idea.
The cash value thing loses me -
fire wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 6:21 am
confusing "think" and "know" is a common mistake so i will let you slide on this one
I wasn't confusing - it was a kind of joke. Knowledge is not the subject of philosophy - literally it means 'The love of Knowledge'
Or better 'wisdom'. Both terms get 'tricky' when you 'think' about them. So I for one wouldn't let these slide.

Knowledge for me is more a kind of usefulness, I've no longer much time for fixed definitions, and there's the Gettier problem, which rocks some peoples boat, but not mine. 'Thinking' is on the face of it more simple, but then can computers think? I wrote a tic tac toe program awhile ago which 'learnt'. So the machine 'looked' at previous moves and there outcomes... was this thinking? I mean it made decisions. What really struck me is when playing with the program you could teach it by letting it win a few times to play better much quicker than if you simply tried to beat it. Which is how 'good' teaching works?

User avatar
fire
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:15 pm
Location: noritual unformation

Re: hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by fire » Thu May 18, 2017 9:53 am

jliat wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 9:33 am
fire wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 6:21 am
there is more evidence for a man-god ruling from the clouds than there is for the veracity of peer review.
Then please point me to this evidence. I've flown through quite a few clouds and never seen any 'man-god' and i'm not aware of being ruled by such a 'person'. Obviously he could be deluding me, but that's an old philosophical idea.
there is none...

Image

Image
[17,963] days since last fuck given

User avatar
xdugef
Posts: 12923
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:26 am
Location: 噪声æº￾
Contact:

Re: hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by xdugef » Thu May 18, 2017 10:47 am

fire wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 6:21 am

there is more evidence for a man-god ruling from the clouds than there is for the veracity of peer review.
and on the plus side churchs are tax exempt!

User avatar
fire
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:15 pm
Location: noritual unformation

Re: hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by fire » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:02 pm

can computers think? I wrote a tic tac toe program awhile ago which 'learnt'. So the machine 'looked' at previous moves and there outcomes... was this thinking? I mean it made decisions. What really struck me is when playing with the program you could teach it by letting it win a few times to play better much quicker than if you simply tried to beat it. Which is how 'good' teaching works?
whoa now, the computer/program did not make decisions, it followed a logical path that you, a human, laid out, the program learned nothing, any modification of its behavior was predetermined by your intelligence when you wrote the code

teaching does not work, teaching is the delusion of knowledge, belief in ones ability to effect the minds of others, but the world is a moron who will not be taught, god damn it, i worked hard for this ignore ants and no wisdom can separate me from it, go ahead, teach until you are blue in the face, i cannot, nay will not, learn

anyway, john searle, chinese room, learn it up
[17,963] days since last fuck given


User avatar
jliat
Posts: 1449
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:34 am
Contact:

Re: hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by jliat » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:42 am

fire wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:02 pm


anyway, john searle, chinese room, learn it up
I'm familiar with Searle and the Chinese room, are you aware of Frank Tipler's arguments against it. To code the human brain would he estimates take 100million books, which would occupy a 35 story building. And the task of processing -fetching and placing back these books require 3 x 10^19 joules - equivalent to 300 million large nuclear power plants. Or using a team of humans a million times the world population... as he concludes, "a man can no more hand-simulate a Turning Test-Passing program than he can jump to the moon."

You might also be interested in Limited Inc in which The Silver Fox runs rings around Searle...

"learn it up" :doh:

User avatar
xdugef
Posts: 12923
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:26 am
Location: 噪声æº￾
Contact:

Re: hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by xdugef » Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:11 am

jliat wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:42 am

I'm familiar with Searle and the Chinese room
Image

User avatar
fire
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:15 pm
Location: noritual unformation

Re: hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by fire » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:05 am

that f tipler rebuttal must be epic in scope, for neither you nor the interwebs will regurgitate it without some proddding

but really, dont bother, as my opinion of tipler is less than flattery would demand, in fact, in short, i think... nay, i Know, he is an attention whore, nothing he posits is useful, he specializes in generalization, a preist in the New Upcycled Religion, a society builder cum louder, he has damn near deafened you!

sadly, the first "AI" is coming, it will be impressive, it will be human like, it will fool the masses and some of the elite

and in the end, it will be shown to simply be a clever simulation of its designer, if i were its father i would either by ego or unaware patterning, construct the device like the mind i knew most about its workings, really this is the only logical way

and so the artist paints a painting which is mistaken by all observers as the exact image from the mind of the artist

good luck
[17,963] days since last fuck given

User avatar
fire
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:15 pm
Location: noritual unformation

Re: hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by fire » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:38 pm

The team believes part of the solution for how to build AI systems that consider actual human needs is to treat AI less as a collection of algorithms that you can apply to various problems and more as a design material or medium like paint. They also want to pair that perspective with tools and training that help those building AI and machine learning systems view it and develop for it in a more people-centric way.
Partnership for AI founding member and Microsoft Research Technical Fellow and Managing Director Eric Horvitz told me, "Bias in data can get propagated to machine learning that can lead to biased systems.” He also worried that biased AI could impact, “how racial minorities are handled when it comes to visual perception and facial recognition.”
sililar to how "global warming" became "climate change"

"artificial intelligence" becomes "machine learning"

we are so screwed
[17,963] days since last fuck given

User avatar
jliat
Posts: 1449
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:34 am
Contact:

Re: hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by jliat » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:06 am

Tipler hardly generalizes, his book (these are read by people who want more than google or wiki pumped into their heads) is very detailed even having appendix for those who can follow the math, (not me). But he goes on to make the point regarding the Chinese room, it is intelligent. Teams of people like collections of individual neurons can achieve more than the single person / cell.

I wont go into the other arguments because you seem just get all emotional.

As for a clever simulation, computers can play chess and go far better than their creators. “if i were its father” but your not. And those working in AI do not model the software and hardware on brain neurons. OK some dumb ass trying to make an aeroplane might build it out of feathers and have flapping wings, those that did failed.

So its not the only logical way – its a stupid way. No idea of your artist thing. Artists seldom paint what's in their minds...

I've no idea of the point your quotes are attempting to make.

A significant problem with AI is having a fairly good definition of intelligence. Which we generally do not have. Hence the simplicity of the Turing test.

User avatar
fire
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:15 pm
Location: noritual unformation

Re: hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by fire » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:26 am

jliat wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:06 am
Tipler... his book... the Chinese room, it is intelligent. Teams of people like collections of individual neurons can achieve more than the single person / cell.
which book/chapter?
jliat wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:06 am
those working in AI do not model the software and hardware on brain neurons.
oh derp(see above)/(yes they are trying)
jliat wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:06 am
No idea of your artist thing. Artists seldom paint what's in their minds...
holy holy holy moloch you are so missing the obvious
jliat wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:06 am
I've no idea of the point your quotes are attempting to make.
no, no you dont, but thank jesus you used the proper contraction of "i have", unlike youre destruction of the words "you are", asshole
jliat wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:06 am
A significant problem with AI is having a fairly good definition of intelligence. Which we generally do not have. Hence the simplicity of the Turing test.
the turing test is comic book science, grow up old man
[17,963] days since last fuck given

User avatar
fire
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:15 pm
Location: noritual unformation

Re: hey jliat, dogs are smarter than you

Post by fire » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:33 am

the shitty thing is... i know some who visit here find my writings perfectly... well, acceptably... lucid

that you are not one of them is frankly, shocking, maybe a little sad

i like to think you are just challenging me, goading me to improve my responses

but not too sure anymore

maybe you cant tell a lunatic from a genius
[17,963] days since last fuck given

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests