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RJMyato
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Post by RJMyato » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:46 pm

meter and rhythm are interchangable terms for the purposes of what i was saying in that fucking post and you should seriously just quit now because ONCE AGAIN IF YOU YOURSELF ADMIT THAT YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOURE TALKING ABOUT YOU SHOULDNT GO AROUND CLAIMING TO HAVE "KINDA" SOLVED THE PROBLEMS OF PHILOSOPHY OR "KINDA" DISCOVERED A NEW ELEMENT OF POETIC METER OR WHATEVER BULLSHIT JESUS CHRST

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clemon!09.
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Post by clemon!09. » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:47 pm

BTW i meant that because content is or at least can be evaluative, he has to work extra extra hard at making sure that he's not giving a pre-existing hierarchy of values [if that's his intention]

i'm going for a cig CELEBRATE ME whilst i'm gone.
I'm just going to fuck with you... so get used to it man

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jliat
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Post by jliat » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:05 pm

zombra wrote:
jliat wrote:Finally art an music might be about HUMAN communication - noise is not. Its part of a much bigger thing called the REAL WORLD outside of the human correlation.
interesting... would noise be REAL WORLD communication then?
No - because it's noisiness makes it unable to communicate. It's lack of structure, its lack of 'difference'. Writing, music, art has these- and I'm trying to communicate something here - so this text has for me a meaning - and that is why its created. You can read it and extract meanings - some might be similar to what I intend so we have communication - of sorts. (and we value this!) Even if I make HNW in order to communicate - at least my intent to 'make' something - as its indistinguishable from natural and accidental noises it cant do this. Unless we think nature has a meaning. If we look at the night sky - and ask 'what does it all mean' - and the answer is 'nothing'… then we cant communicate with the universe- anymore than you can have conversations with atoms, or tooth picks.
zombra wrote:
jliat wrote:But - even if some objective test could be found for measuring what HUMANS think is Harsh or Noisy or A WALL, it would be of no interest to ME. As that again is limited to the Anthropocentric view of reality.

but does your (human) interest in this movement towards an objective measure of (harsh) noise bring it into human view of reality?
No I don't think so. Other than a view that reality is larger than my understanding. Much larger, and that it might be wrong to assume a human mind can reason reality out - in any fullness.

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timdrage
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Post by timdrage » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:17 pm

HNW isn't indistinguishable from any natural or many accidental noises at all tho.

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jliat
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Post by jliat » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:23 pm

clemon!09. wrote:can we talk about another crazy idea? i'm bored of meaninglessness,
That's true - and I've addressed this - the universe is VERY boring. (As is HNW hour after hour) It's another feature. Humans want the universe to be exciting - but its not 90% of it is dark matter - space is mostly empty of stuff. Star trek and computer enhanced Hubble photos 'make' it appear otherwise.

Art, you seem to want it to relieve you of your boredom, like the Roman games….
clemon!09. wrote:
no-one knows who disagrees. and STDEV too, is a pretty weak measure at best.
No - it's a brilliant measure. As its not subjective. We humans call the Earth the 'Earth' because we live on dry land. In fact we now know the planet is more water! If you randomly jump around google earth you get mostly Boring blue screens…
clemon!09. wrote:
i am gonna say that the rhythms of noise inspired poetry become in themselves content. so if pound is right that all rhythm must be meaningful, then he better watch out what he says with it.

is that reprehensibly dim witted?
No just anthropocentric. Also - noise does'nt have rhythms and not all rhythms are meaningful. But apart from that why are you bothering with a poet and a form of poetry no longer of any relevance. Oh - it's a hobby to amuse you - as you get bored.

Ok - rhyme on… I think I have it now - you see the world outside - people and stuff there in order to amuse you. That's why you only got 30 pages into ND. It's very dry….

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clemon!09.
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Post by clemon!09. » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:26 pm

people and stuff there in order to amuse you
i dunno i also try to amuse and help others.


anyway, i thought few academics believed in postmodernism now?? very blase statement but i am just fishing...
I'm just going to fuck with you... so get used to it man

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Niallllll
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Post by Niallllll » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:27 pm

No - it's a brilliant measure. As its not subjective. We humans call the Earth the 'Earth' because we live on dry land. In fact we now know the planet is more water! If you randomly jump around google earth you get mostly Boring blue screens…

[/quote]

Oceans are much more exciting that boring land
As a biologist!

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jliat
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Post by jliat » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:29 pm

timdrage wrote:HNW isn't indistinguishable from any natural or many accidental noises at all tho.
And you evidence is................................


Objectively its indistinguishable - and subjectively - when i played examples of Vomir, the rita, Shuttle launch, random noise, cosmic background radiation... to an audience... and then asked ... how did they know that i hadn't faked any of it.

No one said - well sample X was obviously Vomir.

Next time i'll play a Mozart sample - bet they spot that.

Anyway - not HNW but it is the same idea-



Richard Williams, who had been given two single-sided test pressings for his Melody Maker review of John and Yoko's Wedding Album, each with a blank side featuring only an engineer's test signal, took it to be a double album. Reviewing it as such, he noted that sides two and four consisted entirely "of single tones maintained throughout, presumably produced electronically". This led Lennon and Ono to send the following telegram to Williams:
DEAR RICHARD THANK YOU FOR YOUR FANTASTIC REVIEW ON OUR WEDDING ALBUM INCLUDING C-AND-D SIDES. WE ARE CONSIDERING IT FOR OUR NEXT RELEASE. MAYBE YOU ARE RIGHT IN SAYING THAT THEY ARE THE BEST SIDES STOP WE BOTH FEEL THAT THIS IS THE FIRST TIME A CRITIC TOPPED THE ARTIST. WE ARE NOT JOKING. LOVE AND PEACE STOP JOHN AND YOKO LENNON.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_Album Accessed 1/06/2013

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jliat
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Post by jliat » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:33 pm

clemon!09. wrote:
people and stuff there in order to amuse you
i dunno i also try to amuse and help others.


anyway, i thought few academics believed in postmodernism now?? very blase statement but i am just fishing...
Well if your fishing - talk to Niallllllllllll...

But i don't know what postmodernism has to do with this... The current OOO /OOP are interested in the world outside of the human correlation. And the history of the universe is amazingly boring.

I dont think art is there to amuse and help others - that is where we differ.

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clemon!09.
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Post by clemon!09. » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:35 pm

jliat wrote:
clemon!09. wrote:
people and stuff there in order to amuse you
i dunno i also try to amuse and help others.


anyway, i thought few academics believed in postmodernism now?? very blase statement but i am just fishing...
Well if your fishing - talk to Niallllllllllll...

But i don't know what postmodernism has to do with this... The current OOO /OOP are interested in the world outside of the human correlation. And the history of the universe is amazingly boring.

I dont think art is there to amuse and help others - that is where we differ.
no, that is where you think we differ.

did i say that? you must appreciate that even if i believed something CLOSE to that, it wouldn't be quite in those terms. would it?
I'm just going to fuck with you... so get used to it man

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clemon!09.
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Post by clemon!09. » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:37 pm

perhaps no-one currently has access to OBJECTS.

this is just a meaningless statement. doesn't brassier consider most self identified OOP's thoughtless charlatans?
I'm just going to fuck with you... so get used to it man

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jliat
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Post by jliat » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:39 pm

Niallllll wrote:No - it's a brilliant measure. As its not subjective. We humans call the Earth the 'Earth' because we live on dry land. In fact we now know the planet is more water! If you randomly jump around google earth you get mostly Boring blue screens…
Oceans are much more exciting that boring land[/quote]


I suspect you would think so - but you are biased. But i'd agree that oceans are exciting - but how much of the universe is ocean - and given its going to last trillions of years, long after the brief second of planetary existence - most of it will be - for us - boring.
"Once upon a time, in some out of the way corner of that universe which is dispersed into numberless twinkling solar systems, there was a star upon which clever beasts invented knowing. That was the most arrogant and mendacious minute of "world history," but nevertheless, it was only a minute. After nature had drawn a few breaths, the star cooled and congealed, and the clever beasts had to die. One might invent such a fable, and yet we still would not have adequately illustrated how miserable, how shadowy and transient, how aimless and arbitrary the human intellect looks within nature. There were eternities during which it did not exist. And when it is all over with the human intellect, nothing will have happened."
(Nietzsche 1873)

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jliat
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Post by jliat » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:41 pm

clemon!09. wrote:perhaps no-one currently has access to OBJECTS.

this is just a meaningless statement. doesn't brassier consider most self identified OOP's thoughtless charlatans?

Why do you want to know - are you bored - seeking entertainment?

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timdrage
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Post by timdrage » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:42 pm

Ok I'll give you 'accidental' since mix clipping sometimes could sound something like harsh wall noise

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clemon!09.
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Post by clemon!09. » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:42 pm

human interaction.

this isn't [quite[ my thing now...
I'm just going to fuck with you... so get used to it man

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