How do you market your noise brand?

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killing raven sun
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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by killing raven sun » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:38 am

Mino wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:07 am
there is no general "template" on how to market content, like pop stars or whatever.
market forces are well understood, noise is a shitty market, period

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melkobukva
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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by melkobukva » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:40 pm

Mino wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:07 am
there is no general "template" on how to market content, like pop stars or whatever
noise is just another genre of popular music, so there is no reason why one wouldn't be able to apply the same templates
the only real difference is quantitative - your target audience is super tiny and the market is super saturated

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jliat
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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by jliat » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:40 pm

melkobukva wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:40 pm
Mino wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:07 am
there is no general "template" on how to market content, like pop stars or whatever
noise is just another genre of popular music,
Well no. You need to support that. I can say if not so, then you see philosophers like Brassier taking it seriously, why universities have academics interested in it. Keeping this short, its neither 'music' or that 'popular'.
melkobukva wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:40 pm
so there is no reason why one wouldn't be able to apply the same templates
the only real difference is quantitative - your target audience is super tiny and the market is super saturated
However art often does not have a 'target audience'. Or even 'popular' music. Do you think when the likes of Clapton et al used blues to create a new genre they had a target audience. Well you probably do.

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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by killing raven sun » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:48 pm

melkobukva wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:40 pm
your target audience is super tiny and the market is super saturated
exactly, and curiously, your audience may be more spread out over time, as opposed to the pop stars who get all their attention at the moment of now but little residuals, so fame might be considered more of a long term staying power of an artist or their work rather than initial reception, a body of work is more important than a big splash since you cant really make a big splash

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melkobukva
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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by melkobukva » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:14 pm

killing raven sun wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:48 pm
melkobukva wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:40 pm
your target audience is super tiny and the market is super saturated
exactly, and curiously, your audience may be more spread out over time, as opposed to the pop stars who get all their attention at the moment of now but little residuals, so fame might be considered more of a long term staying power of an artist or their work rather than initial reception, a body of work is more important than a big splash since you cant really make a big splash
wise words

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melkobukva
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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by melkobukva » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:30 pm

jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:40 pm
Well no. You need to support that. I can say if not so, then you see philosophers like Brassier taking it seriously, why universities have academics interested in it. Keeping this short, its neither 'music' or that 'popular'.
We're discussing marketing, not The True Nature of Real Noise. Noise market is qualitatively the same as EDM market or Heavy Metal market. People release records, play gigs, sell merch and engage in stupid amounts of scene bullshit. Just like in any other genre of popular music.
If you believe a Merzbow CD published by Release Entertainment is somehow metaphysically different from a Neurosis CD published by Release Entertainment, it's up to you to support that.

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Mino
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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by Mino » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:19 pm

melkobukva wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:40 pm
Mino wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:07 am
there is no general "template" on how to market content, like pop stars or whatever
noise is just another genre of popular music, so there is no reason why one wouldn't be able to apply the same templates
the only real difference is quantitative - your target audience is super tiny and the market is super saturated
If anything is considered "popular music" just because it is within the open public to consume in the form of media and for the purpose of entertainment, then the point of even defining this is of relative importance compared to the greater point that yes, the market is super tiny. For you to even get a stage as you say, play gigs, sell merch, and bs among scene regulars, there are some initial steps that are outside the template and because the demographic volume and profit ratios are no real factor of great concern, there is no template. But I think people are confusing "marketing" with "generating success".

If you have a big label backing you, you can tour and get your name exposed and basically add a TM behind your name and make money every time it's used, but that's not what gets the ball rolling. To roll the ball, there's a smaller audience you need to tap into. As I see it, in noise, there's little to no point in even playing gigs as the initial eye catcher. You can if you want to get people into it locally, but that's not as effective if you were some cocktail bar band doing cover songs. Create a following, constantly put out content, distribute wherever the interest may be. Market a promotion if you want an event, set up that event, and communicate with people who actively do it too. That's as monolithic as it gets, and if you can even get that far. But that last bit is pretty optional as I see it. That's like marketing level 2, because noise has a level 2 as I see it.
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Sleep Of Ages
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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by Sleep Of Ages » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:39 pm


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jliat
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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by jliat » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:05 pm

melkobukva wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:30 pm


We're discussing marketing, not The True Nature of Real Noise. Noise market is qualitatively the same as EDM market or Heavy Metal market. People release records, play gigs, sell merch and engage in stupid amounts of scene bullshit. Just like in any other genre of popular music.
If you believe a Merzbow CD published by Release Entertainment is somehow metaphysically different from a Neurosis CD published by Release Entertainment, it's up to you to support that.

If we are discussing marketing fine - you might as well include selling anything. But your premise was "noise is just another genre of popular music," not 'noise is just another product which can be sold.'

And "popular" is an interesting term to use about something that the majority of people know little or nothing about and whose sales are so low the usual means -main stream record companies, promotors, haven't the slightest interest in. That may be one of the 'features' of noise which makes its marketing problematic in terms of traditional means. Noise seems typified by the 'audiences' often less in number than the 'performers'. How many here are not performers but audience... same as EDM?

"A music produced by each individual for himself, for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange"

Jaques Attali 'Noise - The Political Economy of Music' p. 137 from the marketing blurb... "Noise [the book] is a model of cultural historiography... in its general argument on relations of culture to economy..."

So while i would'nt say "a Merzbow CD published by Release Entertainment is somehow metaphysically different from a Neurosis CD" I would say that excluding one or two well known (only within the 'genre') names the 'economics' of noise marketing might well be different to EDM ontologically and economically. And more like the 'model' proposed by Attali.

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melkobukva
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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by melkobukva » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:18 am

Sleep Of Ages wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:39 pm
This is how you do it:

https://www.special-interests.net/forum ... pic=9285.0
salesperson of the month :lol:

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melkobukva
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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by melkobukva » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:49 am

jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:05 pm
"A music produced by each individual for himself, for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange"
Is this why Discogs is stuffed with €50 Harsh Noise releases?

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jliat
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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by jliat » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:08 am

melkobukva wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:49 am
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:05 pm
"A music produced by each individual for himself, for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange"
Is this why Discogs is stuffed with €50 Harsh Noise releases?
Sure - and how many "sales".

This is Attali's take- from the 70s pre internet.

Another feature is my "Cargo Cults" idea. In noise we have "Labels" "Bands" "Shows" which on the face of things 'resemble' the "Real" thing but in fact are not.
A cargo cult is a belief system among a relatively undeveloped society in which adherents practice superstitious rituals hoping to bring modern goods supplied by a more technologically advanced society.
:roll:

It would be interesting to know if ANY Noise acts are self supporting?

Sam McKinlay - The Rita works in a skateboard shop - Vancouver Skull Skates - evidently he is an expert...

Vomir too has a day job.

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melkobukva
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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by melkobukva » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:46 am

jliat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:08 am
melkobukva wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:49 am
jliat wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:05 pm
"A music produced by each individual for himself, for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange"
Is this why Discogs is stuffed with €50 Harsh Noise releases?
Sure - and how many "sales".
You could easily go and see for yourself, but that wouldn't matter, because the question is whether noise is produced by each individual for himself, for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange. The existence of numerous Harsh Noise listings on Discogs demonstrates the contrary.
jliat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:08 am
This is Attali's take- from the 70s pre internet.
Why do you bring him up then? Might as well quote John Wycliffe as your source on music business.
jliat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:08 am
Another feature is my "Cargo Cults" idea.
Yet another proof that Wikipedia is not a reliable source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult
No mention that "Cargo Cults" were your idea.
jliat wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:08 am
In noise we have "Labels" "Bands" "Shows" which on the face of things 'resemble' the "Real" thing but in fact are not.
A cargo cult is a belief system among a relatively undeveloped society in which adherents practice superstitious rituals hoping to bring modern goods supplied by a more technologically advanced society.
:roll:

It would be interesting to know if ANY Noise acts are self supporting?

Sam McKinlay - The Rita works in a skateboard shop - Vancouver Skull Skates - evidently he is an expert...

Vomir too has a day job.
Not unique to noise at all.

Moreover, your second point invalidates your first point. If people engage in music business cargo cults, their music is definitely not music produced by each individual for himself, for pleasure outside of meaning, usage and exchange.

killing raven sun
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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by killing raven sun » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:08 am

i saw kurt cobain at satyricon, he didnt have money for a beer

killing raven sun
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Re: How do you market your noise brand?

Post by killing raven sun » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:19 pm

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