Good Morning, Vietnam (1987)

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Sleep Of Ages
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Post by Sleep Of Ages » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:36 am

Striations wrote: I think Platoon is an awful film, I think the characters are too dramatic and unrealistic.
QFT

But studying Vietnam war thru movies is something that I would call, at least, misguided. At least if you are studying History or something closer to the truth. In this case "The Fog of War" seems interesting.

Even the best movies about war should not be taken as anything other than art. "Apocalypse Now" and "The Deer Hunter" are just as truthful as the mediocre stuff that passes as "based on actual facts" or some other shit like that. I'm old and boring I know.

And all hails Samuel Fuller, King among peasants.
The only way to bring the real experience of war to a movie audience is by firing a machine gun above their heads during the screening.
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Striations
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Post by Striations » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:42 am

I'm not watching movies as a substitute for reading books and researching, it's just a supplement.

And your right about art being just as truthful as the news, ect. I know these films do not come close to actually being there. I think its interesting in itself that the films even were made in the first place. These directors must have truly hated the war as it motivated them to undertake the processes of making the films.

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Sleep Of Ages
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Post by Sleep Of Ages » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:19 am

Striations wrote:I'm not watching movies as a substitute for reading books and researching, it's just a supplement.

And your right about art being just as truthful as the news, ect. I know these films do not come close to actually being there. I think its interesting in itself that the films even were made in the first place. These directors must have truly hated the war as it motivated them to undertake the processes of making the films.
I don't get what you say about how interesting is that the movies get made... And how they hated war. That seems a little naive.
John Milius, who wrote the Apocalypse Now script and is a very good director himself (Conan FFS) doesn't seem like the guy who hates war so much, and I think some blockhead like Oliver Stone were more interested in the visuals/theme and stuff like that, or even bright guys like Cimino and Coppola. It's like that scene on FMJ where the guy is shooting from the helicopter randomly "Get some! Ain't war hell?".
You hardly see human beings being treated with such dignity in any of those vietnam movies as they were in Samuel Fuller WWII movies (The Big Red One), it's everything way more geared towards the epic/operatic/heroic or just anti war babble. It's a weird war and it doesn't seem to have being fully digested and understood, maybe never will be. Ain't all Vietnam movies about americans anyway? I mean, not american soldiers, but the very concept of "american" and the pain/burden/stupidity/bravery of the american?

Some cool reading:

http://www.jonathanrosenbaum.net/1981/0 ... ispatches/

http://www.jonathanrosenbaum.net/1989/09/micromorality/ (About DePalma Casualties of War)

http://www.jonathanrosenbaum.net/1987/0 ... loody-war/ (Platoon)

http://www.jonathanrosenbaum.net/2015/0 ... heme-park/ (About the AN doc, "Hearts of Darkness")

http://www.jonathanrosenbaum.net/1987/0 ... rger-hill/

http://www.jonathanrosenbaum.net/1999/0 ... me-coming/

http://www.jonathanrosenbaum.net/2005/0 ... d-the-men/ ("Winter Soldier" seems interesting)

That being said, I really must see "Rescue Dawn" ASAP.

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Striations
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Post by Striations » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:46 am

I agree with what you wrote there. I won't romanticize the films by assuming the film makers had some kind of political agenda, but think about it.

Regarding the scene from FMJ, Kubrick was not pro america at all in FMJ. So yes these movies are examples of our american political problems.

Thanks for the links I will check them all.

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Post by fire » Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:22 pm

not about hate, its about winning, media is wmd, there is no peace, but only a peaceful state of war...

interesting reading:

http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/battle.htm
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