Beginners guide to making noise/experimental

Talk about music gear for noise music

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flies
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Post by flies » Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:13 am

i read this quote a while ago, and i wanted to say something then, but never got around to it. i've seen this same sentiment echoed on iheartnoise and i want to tender a rebuttal.
flowersniffer7 wrote:I have to say that this guide is probobly the worst thing that has ever happened to noise... The fact of the matter is that Punk failed because it adopted rules and a uniform and now if you don't fall into what people consider punk, you obviously can't make good punk music... If you are attempting to create guidlines for experimental music... you just took the experimenting out of it...
...
So I guess what I am saying is... If thiss is the future of noise... you can enjoy the same failure as punk without ever having the mainstream appeal.
i don't think that the 'experimental' quality of noise is its most valuable asset. What i think is most important is the sound. I think that experimentation is important in that it leads to new sounds and lends your music a certain freedom, it can amaze you, etc. When you just do what other people have done then you're acting from an impulse that is (possibly) no longer relevant, and the sound gets stale and boring.

I also think that learning from the experience of others is a great way to improve your music, and i think that's what this thread is all about.

i'm not really sure if punk failed or not, but the goals of punk and the goals of noise are not the same, so we shouldn't expect that what's wrong for punk is wrong for noise. I think a big difference between punk and noise is that punk doesn't really value technique, whereas noise does. I think that's the critical difference: a thread on sharing techniques furthers the development of noise music.

People shouldn't have to re-invent the wheel. i mean, it's hard to make something genuinely new if you don't know what's already been done.

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flies
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Post by flies » Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:19 am

just to continue that last paragraph, the good that a thread like this can do is to help people through their initiation, help people learn what is out there and give them a starting point from which to grow. If all you ever did was do what ppl on this thread told you, then yes that would certainly be boring. i don't think we should avoid making a thread like this just because of that problem.

anyway, metadialogue is the way of the internet, and the most important thing i can do is to talk abotu what we should talk about. :oops:

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Post by deadelks » Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:54 pm

NO ONE CAN KNOW THE SECRETS!!!!!!!!!

As someone whos new, yeah I had questions. And I wasn't afriad to ask. Some people were helpful others were just assholes about it. Like I can't join their club. Im always glad to help others. I have a lot of people ask me drum questions (drummer of ten+ years). Unless there just idiot questions im glad to help and explain things to them. While I know noise music is all about self discovery and things like that it is an intimidating thing to get into.

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Post by Eirik Vandal » Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:55 am

I think the name of this thread speaks for itself.
It's just basic ideas/guidelines for people who dont know where to begin.
It's wonderful to be a nerd

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Post by Myra Shipman » Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:02 pm

I'm glad it's here, i've learned something.
Recruited some gremlins.
To get me clear of the airline routes.
I paid them off with stuffing from my wings.
They had some fun with those cheapo airline snobs.

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Post by tt_deeb » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:58 am

Yeah, this thread was very helpful to me when I was just starting out.

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Post by flowersniffer7 » Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:59 am

this thread did not start out to teach other people... if you read the first couple posts its all about placing rules on noise... There are no rules... I am all about exposing people to new things and helping people learn, but putting guidelines on what is and is not noise is stupid... If you want an official deffinition Noise= Unwanted Sound... There you go that can be your stupid guideline... Fuck guidelines... I am cool with a thread that says, this is what I do, try it and see if it works for you, not this is what I do and this is the way it needs to be done, blah, blah, performers must be interesting crap... We are not cane and tophat fucken entertainers... and thats what pissed me off about this stupid thread... Start a new thread about what gear you use and how you use it and I'll post pictures and be informative, try to define something that should only be bound by the creater's willingness to express themselves and I will never respect what your doing... Cry about it if you want.
Noise, Bread and Cheese

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Post by flowersniffer7 » Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:02 am

oh and rule # whatever about forming a social network, go join those fucken noise pop hipsters shitheads if this is about your social life... Noise has just done wonders for my social life, let me tell you... all the chicks dig it... What the fuck is that... Noise is a sausage party, get used to it. and this one: "Don't work exclusively on computers." If this was about learning you wouldn't say something that close minded... how about this is what can be done with computers I'll teach how to patch out some shit on MaxMSP... obviously this was not intended to be a real learning experience, just a way homoginize the noise scene which is already suffering from homogenization as it is...
"5. Remember, you are still making music. Noise and experimental music can be very free-form, and annihilate the barriers and conventions of traditional music. That doesn't mean you should simply hold your guitar into an amplifier for an hour and call if music. And if you do, Lou Reed will have done it already, and will have done it better. Your music still needs a structure and purpose. Dynamics and variation are good. I will repeat that again. DYNAMICS AND VARIATION ARE GOOD. Whatever your first effort was, it did not have enough dynamics, variation, or balance, do it again at least twice."
If your opinion is that lou reed did all there was to do with guitar feedback, I feel sorry for you... fucken expand your horizons... Sonic Youth could get better sounds from their guitars than lou reed had the just stuck their guitars up their asses and screamed into microphones during the process...
I tried to post this shit the nice way... but yeah fuck all that... Here is how it is... Noise is experimentation of sound, if you want to define music it would be a sonic force with melody, harmony and rhythem... Noise at its best has two out of three at any given time... therefore it is experimenting with sound... I am fine with that and I like it that way, so stop trying to pop it up and make it digestable to the bullshit morons out there who are never going to get it anyway...
Its not about getting a bigger fan base, its not about social networking, its not about rules and regulations and masturbating on stage... go see gg alin's corpse dance around for that... I dare to say its about the music and I say music because my definition is more expansive than any official deffinitions...

So yeah... the learning and whatnot, I am cool with, don't misquote what I said, because I said this thread is bullshit... I never said anything negative about teaching newbs shit...
however what I will say now about that is that you will learn more of the ins and outs if you figure it out on your own, plus you develope your own style instead of somebody elses...

The point of noise is that it is experimental... And in regards to punk... If you don't understand the correlation between punk and noise you should go back and check your roots... "punk doesn't value technique." That varies from band to band, the technique is sloppiness, but is controlled sloppyness, the guitarist usually knows what the fuck they are doing all the time... That mindset is the birth of noise, purposely exposing the impurities of sound to birth new sonic experiences...

If we can agree that all music is expression or at least that it should be than we can use music to represent frustrations and sentiments about the world around us, good experiences, bad experiences, death, love, heartbreak, anger... whatever the fuck you want to pool from you can express it via sound... This means that inherently music takes on the ideals of its creators... If you can't hear the same frustration in Punk, Noise and Metal, your not looking into the meaning behind it... The sloppiness of punk is the same rebellion against rules and guidelines that birthed noise... If you can't see that you should go stick your head in the sand with the ostriches.

as far as punk failing... the ideals of punk have faded into what is left and all that is really left is the uniform, homogenized bullshit... go to 924 if you don't believe me... there are barely any political beliefs there anymore and where they exist they tend to be overused cliches... the same thing is emerging due to stupid shit like this guide in the noise community, everybody is taking on the same no-input mixer with 200 pedals harsh noise style that has its good qualities when fully explored by people like Xome, Stimbox, Merzbow and others who pioneered these sounds, but those who try to emulate that just end up sounding generic and thats not what noise is about... Fuck rules... Fuck Conformity and just go out and find sounds that define who you in new ways...

Nobody has to re-invent the wheel, but if there are imperfections in it, they can certainly help find a more efficient way of building one... but fuck all that, people learning this shit from other people are just re-inventing the wheel which will hopefully result in them expanding on it, but usually doesn't... if you do everything from scratch your own way, you are going to have more personalized sounds that are more innovative... its like a modular synth set up... you can buy all those units and build a massive setup because you don't need to invent modules that already exist, or you could fuck around with those modules and put them together in unique ways thus creating a totally new and different concept... thats how you prevent the re-inventing of the wheel, but honestly there will always be some overlapping because you have to learn a skill to build your own electronics, or to play guitar or whatever and those skills are already known by others, but if you teach yourself guitar you probobly play it in a different way than anybody else you know... and thats the point...

DIY because this is a DIY art form... but all art should be...

Good luck to newbies... and fuck off to this thread...
Noise, Bread and Cheese

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Post by timdrage » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:47 pm

DYNAMICS AND VARIATION ARE GOOD. Whatever your first effort was, it did not have enough dynamics, variation, or balance, do it again at least twice."
I'm currently working on some stuff where if it has any dynamics, variation or balance, i do it again at least twice.

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Post by MedCab » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:36 am

The gangs of LA will never die....just multiply....Colors....

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Post by flies » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:49 pm

flower, what you just wrote makes sense to me. i don't like the idea of confining noise to a set of guidelines, and I also don't like the 'if i help you then i'm killing noise' attitude that some people take. Clearly flower, you are not in that group.

I wouldn't mind a calm back and forth about a few particulars in your post but i don't want to cause further acrimony. Overall, I feel like i understand where you're coming from a lot better now, you've made me see some things more clearly and changed my mind a bit. 8)

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Post by flowersniffer7 » Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:04 pm

Yeah I don't mind talking about particulars, I think the major "arguement," if thats the right word has been solved... No Guidelines, but free learning community advancement... seems simple to me, everything else is just scenery that I wouldn't mind going back and forth on... I even enjoy the heated debates and what not... Just as long as there are no hard feelings in the end.
flies wrote:flower, what you just wrote makes sense to me. i don't like the idea of confining noise to a set of guidelines, and I also don't like the 'if i help you then i'm killing noise' attitude that some people take. Clearly flower, you are not in that group.

I wouldn't mind a calm back and forth about a few particulars in your post but i don't want to cause further acrimony. Overall, I feel like i understand where you're coming from a lot better now, you've made me see some things more clearly and changed my mind a bit. 8)
Noise, Bread and Cheese

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flies
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Post by flies » Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:53 am

i looked again and there isn't realy much i disagree with.

I could say again, "if people read this thread and never go beyond it or take it as gospel or what have you then that's their loss and it hurts the 'scene'. If they read this and get started and then move on to trying new things, then that's their gain and it helps the scene." I guess i did say it, but i think it's already been said.

as for punk and noise, i'm getting pretty far off topic, so i won't dwell on it. I still think that technical 'virtuosity' as well as innovation is more important to noise than punk, but i we may have to agree to disagree. of course noise draws a lot form punk, but it also draws from industrial (among others), which has a rather different aesthetic and attitude. I think that the industrial influence might explain this.

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noise and experimental

Post by hobbyknife » Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:20 am

I read this thread and agree/disagree with lots of the ideas, but i am grateful it is here. As a relative newcomer, female and older(50) I have a lot of hurdles to overcome, but I have a great bunch of friends here in the noise scene in my town who have supported me and given me opportunities to play out and experiement with my chosen noise-type which is children's electronic toys and tape/radio manipulation. I got into noise because it seemed a natural outgrowth of my work as a collage artist. I know I am not doing anything all that different but i am having a lot of fun. I believe thats why when you do music, any music, they call it "play".

HOBBY KNIFE!!

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Post by ablablablablabla » Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:46 am

this thread is not sticky-worthy..

really,,,




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