Matrix Mixer

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Halo of Teeth
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Matrix Mixer

Post by Halo of Teeth » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:55 am

hey guys, I haven't posted here in a while due to an overwhelming lack of time/ selling a lot of my noise gear to get a new bass amp for the sludge metal band i play in but i thought i would pop in with a quick question:

I've been considering getting a matrix mixer for messing with feedback loops because the ability to mix a couple different loops against eachother seems more interesting than just buying a total sonic annihilation or eye of god loop pedal [and because i heard it was a something NON and some other early industrial folks messed with back in the day]

i guess my question is: does anyone have experience using a matrix mixer for this purpose and can you point me toward tracks you've made with a similar setup? i'm just trying to get my head around the sounds i'm likely to get out of one and seeing if it's something that'll mesh with the rest of my sound before spending the money to order one.

thanks.

bonus question: how does it sound to run an external signal [ie: synth/ samples] through a couple of feedback loops? there's a particular crumbling shot to fuck blown out quality i'm looking for and i've kind of got the suspicion it could be achieved by running a sample [or synth line] through a couple feedback loops then to tape.

this is the kind of effect i'm thinking of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvTCIQqMf4o
the way that sampled speech in the beginning slowly disintegrates into blown out noise around the 1:39 minute mark.

anyone know if i'm on the right track?

thanks again.

NoizeHack
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Post by NoizeHack » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:12 pm

Here is a video of just matrix mixer drone with feedback loops I made.



And then your other question about running input into it, you can get some really cool effects by doing this, you can just use it like a bunch of send effects or parallel channels, or you can have feedback loops and then the input can be sent to those loops and it kind of hits them like resonators.

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timdrage
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Post by timdrage » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:23 pm

Im gonna try building one soon, I am increasingly feeling the need to wet/dry mix everything thru everything else rather than have single chains of fx with the end one most strongly determining the overall sound of the output

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Halo of Teeth
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Post by Halo of Teeth » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:43 pm

Hey Noisehack,
yeah, actually i came across that video of yours randomly on youtube while looking into the matrix mixer earlier this week. it's about the only one i've seen that touches on using a matrix mixer in the way i see in my head... some of the harsh crumbly sounds around the 50 second mark are definitely along the lines of the type of stuff i'm looking to get.

this track on the new NON album is also pretty close to the sound i'm shooting for except my stuff will have throat-shred distorted vocals and lower synth drones to fill out the sound. a bit. i think this stuff is feedback loop derived but i might be wrong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8_zKAfzMl0

this band Herukrat also get a similar kind of thing happening on some of their tracks. sounds like running a monotron through a jet engine or something

http://herukrat.bandcamp.com/

that crushed sputtering gnarled distortion is definitely something i find muself a little obsessed with bringing into my own sound.

in the past i've always derived a lot of my harsher sounds from c-mics/ scrap metal/ or white noise generators through pedals, never really played around with feedback loops or really been aware of the process until fairly recently.

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clemon!09.
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Post by clemon!09. » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:54 pm

hey,

why do some mixers self oscillate in feedback loops? that's the piercing scream one associates with feedback, right?
I'm just going to fuck with you... so get used to it man

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xdugef
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Post by xdugef » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:00 pm

clemon!09. wrote:hey,

why do some mixers self oscillate in feedback loops? that's the piercing scream one associates with feedback, right?
yes that's no input mixer feedback 101

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clemon!09.
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Post by clemon!09. » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:14 pm

xdugef wrote:
clemon!09. wrote:hey,

why do some mixers self oscillate in feedback loops? that's the piercing scream one associates with feedback, right?
yes that's no input mixer feedback 101
so why don't some self oscillate?
I'm just going to fuck with you... so get used to it man

NoizeHack
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Post by NoizeHack » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:19 pm

clemon!09. wrote:
xdugef wrote:
clemon!09. wrote:hey,

why do some mixers self oscillate in feedback loops? that's the piercing scream one associates with feedback, right?
yes that's no input mixer feedback 101
so why don't some self oscillate?
well any active mixer should self oscillate, unless it has some type of feedback cancellation circuit or is really low gain, and any passive mixer won't self oscillate, unless you put something with gain in the feedback loop, like an effect pedal.

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xdugef
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Post by xdugef » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:20 pm

clemon!09. wrote:so why don't some self oscillate?
You'd have to explain the setup..

Possibly because there is too much/not enough resistance or gain drop from the pedals used in the loop.

NoizeHack
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Post by NoizeHack » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:22 pm

Halo of Teeth wrote:Hey Noisehack,
yeah, actually i came across that video of yours randomly on youtube while looking into the matrix mixer earlier this week. it's about the only one i've seen that touches on using a matrix mixer in the way i see in my head... some of the harsh crumbly sounds around the 50 second mark are definitely along the lines of the type of stuff i'm looking to get.

this track on the new NON album is also pretty close to the sound i'm shooting for except my stuff will have throat-shred distorted vocals and lower synth drones to fill out the sound. a bit. i think this stuff is feedback loop derived but i might be wrong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8_zKAfzMl0

this band Herukrat also get a similar kind of thing happening on some of their tracks. sounds like running a monotron through a jet engine or something

http://herukrat.bandcamp.com/

that crushed sputtering gnarled distortion is definitely something i find muself a little obsessed with bringing into my own sound.

in the past i've always derived a lot of my harsher sounds from c-mics/ scrap metal/ or white noise generators through pedals, never really played around with feedback loops or really been aware of the process until fairly recently.
I think the sound you are talking about at 50 seconds mostly comes from the feedback of the death metal pedal, also the eq adjusts the sound of it. you can get some pretty bassy sounds without a synth, but I'm outputting to a little battery amp and then micing it, so I'm probably loosing a lot of the bass.

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xdugef
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Post by xdugef » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:28 pm

NoizeHack wrote:any passive mixer won't self oscillate
lol.. yeah I don't know why I thought that went without saying otherwise you could just tie a knot in any old cable and expect self oscillation.. right? :jive:

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clemon!09.
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Post by clemon!09. » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:31 pm

NoizeHack wrote:
clemon!09. wrote:
xdugef wrote:
clemon!09. wrote:hey,

why do some mixers self oscillate in feedback loops? that's the piercing scream one associates with feedback, right?
yes that's no input mixer feedback 101
so why don't some self oscillate?
well any active mixer should self oscillate, unless it has some type of feedback cancellation circuit or is really low gain, and any passive mixer won't self oscillate, unless you put something with gain in the feedback loop, like an effect pedal.
this is what i thought yeah - i ordered a gain module..?
I'm just going to fuck with you... so get used to it man

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xdugef
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Post by xdugef » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:36 pm

clemon!09. wrote:
NoizeHack wrote:
clemon!09. wrote:
xdugef wrote:
clemon!09. wrote:hey,

why do some mixers self oscillate in feedback loops? that's the piercing scream one associates with feedback, right?
yes that's no input mixer feedback 101
so why don't some self oscillate?
well any active mixer should self oscillate, unless it has some type of feedback cancellation circuit or is really low gain, and any passive mixer won't self oscillate, unless you put something with gain in the feedback loop, like an effect pedal.
this is what i thought yeah - i ordered a gain module..?
Oh so you are not using an external mixer?

Also after messing around with one digital mixer there was enough latency where mixer feedback was different.. sucked

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clemon!09.
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Post by clemon!09. » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:42 pm

no it's a Pittsburgh m3
I'm just going to fuck with you... so get used to it man

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xdugef
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Post by xdugef » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:44 pm

clemon!09. wrote:no it's a Pittsburgh m3
yea.. what are you plugging into what?

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