NO NAZI NOISE - fest, compilation, tour info

Talk about noise music. Reviews, rants, whatever.

Moderator: xome

User avatar
xdugef
Posts: 13320
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:26 am
Location: 噪声æº￾
Contact:

Post by xdugef » Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:11 pm

Duncan wrote:Well no, nobody is making me read this thread or comment on it. Though my decision to make a comment on it because of new things that came about from an exchange between F/I/T/H and RJM is quite an odd thing to see issues with my parents in, as is my next decision to notice that a couple of pages of personal back and forth between Xdugef and F/I/T/H might warrant a flippant and unserious comment about private messages, but if you need to project then you can do it on me.
My personal objection to the comment about pm's is that it is contrary to the norm here.. please pardon the pun but the moderation here is not conducted by forum nazi's :lol:

User avatar
MKULTRA
Posts: 2777
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:04 am

Post by MKULTRA » Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:23 pm

........
Last edited by MKULTRA on Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
red soundwave
Posts: 2453
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:43 pm
Location: poon town
Contact:

Post by red soundwave » Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:00 pm

RRRon is clearly the real threat here, wheres the anti-RRRon comp?, pointless discussion never hurt anyone...but take that away and what are we left with?...fire?...rocks?...gardening?...
peace, love, happiness

User avatar
Grafmeester
Posts: 2199
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:46 am
Location: Eindhoven, NL

Post by Grafmeester » Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:00 pm

deathkey.

Sonic Architect
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:46 pm
Location: Western NY

Post by Sonic Architect » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:18 pm

I try to stay away from forums and such and not get involved with ridiculous wars on here. People get way too touchy on this shit and having dialogues in this manner is very hard and not often pleasant.

That said, as somebody involved with submitting to the comp, touring in support of it and such, I will give my thoughts and try to touch on some stuff that may give some type of answer to FITH main question originally..which really has gone untouched as he mentioned.

Please remember this is solely MY thoughts on these matters and I am not going to be on here very often to engage about them.

Personally, I don't care either about any music scene. not punk, not noise, not post rock. What I do care about is community and social issues. It just so happens that I do noise as my dominant project rather than make punk rock or any other kind of music (besides maybe ambient/drone.)

The reason I got involved with this is not because fascist noise dudes are the biggest threat to humanity. Fascism, sexism, racism...all this shit is awful and it is all connected to each other under oppression. I am largely anarchist..floating somewhere around primitivist but I remain fluid. The constant is challenging oppression where it crops up and where I personally am capable of combating it. I am in a position to challenge it in myself, and also in a niche music scene. Because it is niche does not mean it should not be addressed however, which I don't really see anybody saying anyway.

The motto of anti-racist action is: we go where they go. There are fascists, sexists, and outright racists in the noise and PE scene. So I challenge it and put my project in stark contrast because this project is simply an extension of myself...it is a way to create dialogue, perhaps reach some person about things like this, about mental health, about sexism, about social issues...simply about connection rather than isolating.

I also am not a person that solely advocates reactionary counter-attacks. I make an effort in my essay to in the comp to make this very clear. Though racist people attack queers, minorities and commit acts of violence to varying degrees...I do not think the best way to combat it is absolutely counter-violence...I support groups like bash back, ARA and the like...but the reality is that more often than not, kicking the shit out of oppressive people does not make a bell go off and make they say "wow, fuck, I was a real dick." If I knock out, or beat down Justin from Genocide Lolita he is not going to turn away form his convictions. More likely it will do nothing but breed more hatred, or make him just go silence and then I have become fascist. This is not a solution to these problems. Violence is a selective tactic when needed, but NOT a solution.

What is needed, I feel, is a lot of dialogue as well. It is very needed. I don't like how apathetic people are about these issues. Not just in this scene, but in our entire world. That is why I personally got involved in this, and why I think the comp was a great idea. It has potential to provoke dialogue.

However, a lot of people on BOTH sides (and this is a HUGE problem that stems from many things including our social values, civilization, and oppression) get very dogmatic to the point it shuts down communication, and escalates conflicts where they do not exist.

I think instead, it is much better to really choose our words, think about what we are saying, and stop being reactionary and feeling we need to fire back right away. It is a game of one-ups and it ends where it begins.

So to sum up: are nazis or racists or oppressive people in noise the biggest threat? no. but should it go unchecked? again, no it should not. That stuff needs to be combated everywhere it surfaces and not just brushed of, hushed up, or made to be acceptable.

I urge though that it is not outwardly these traits of oppression be challenged solely, but inwardly too. We have to be extremely critical of ourselves, leave behind denial of our part and come to terms that we are indoctrinated into a value system that is based in white privilege and it will manifest in every single person no matter your gender, your skin color, your value system.

pe(A)ce
-D
Black Bloc - Emotionally devastated heavy electronics
http://www.myspace.com/blackblocpe

User avatar
the raytownian
Posts: 7777
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:19 am

Post by the raytownian » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:56 pm

Sonic Architect wrote:If I knock out, or beat down Justin from Genocide Lolita he is not going to turn away form his convictions. More likely it will do nothing but breed more hatred, or make him just go silence and then I have become fascist. This is not a solution to these problems. Violence is a selective tactic when needed, but NOT a solution.

What is needed, I feel, is a lot of dialogue as well. It is very needed. I don't like how apathetic people are about these issues. Not just in this scene, but in our entire world. That is why I personally got involved in this, and why I think the comp was a great idea. It has potential to provoke dialogue.
This sums up my feelings quite well.

I also want to add that people, whether they realize it or not, can potentially do just as much damage to their message verbally as they can physically.

Some people don't seem to get that alienating and insulting "ignorant", "inactive", "apathetic" or "complacent" individuals does NO good...

If you're not willing or capable of "killing" otherwise good individuals with kindness/helpfulness/suggestions/advice/civilized debate, etc., then you are no better than the violent, reactionary types in my book. You might feel really smug and self-satisfied, but, at the end of the day, you're still just another macho jerk, and you haven't changed anyone's mind!

No, I'm not talking about using this technique with the violent oppressors (as a general term) if/when it consistently fails... There's nothing morally inappropriate about self-defense and defense of the oppressed (verbally, physically, or otherwise), but I do agree that physical (and, yes, verbal) violence is the last resort... and that means an imminent threat of a violent action on the part of the opressor(s).

Frankly, I don't support the supposedly ARA-associated "lone wolf" characters when it comes to threatening violence at non-violent events and being reactionary where their reasoning is questionable at best ("THIS BAND USES SOME QUESTIONABLE IMAGERY... THEY MUST SUPPORT NAZISM! I'M GOING TO THREATEN THE CLUB OWNER AND ATTENDEES!!! I'M SUCH A HERO AND A GREAT ACTIVIST, GO ME!!!").

Now, if there is legitimate cause for concern (even if it just means a young person being brainwashed and fed bullshit viewpoints), then being a presence is something I support wholly. What I don't support is misguided assholes who think making/acting out violent threats (as opposed to threatening to use violence when NEEDED, or simply BEING THERE peaceably for the sake of discourse).

If only all of life's problems could be solved with a dance-off. I blame the heterosexuals.
Not-Sea Punks Fuck Off!

User avatar
Obsolete Office Equipment
Posts: 1697
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:16 am
Location: Cuntrica

Post by Obsolete Office Equipment » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:56 am

the raytownian wrote:
Sonic Architect wrote:If I knock out, or beat down Justin from Genocide Lolita he is not going to turn away form his convictions. More likely it will do nothing but breed more hatred, or make him just go silence and then I have become fascist. This is not a solution to these problems. Violence is a selective tactic when needed, but NOT a solution.

What is needed, I feel, is a lot of dialogue as well. It is very needed. I don't like how apathetic people are about these issues. Not just in this scene, but in our entire world. That is why I personally got involved in this, and why I think the comp was a great idea. It has potential to provoke dialogue.
("THIS BAND USES SOME QUESTIONABLE IMAGERY... THEY MUST SUPPORT NAZISM! I'M GOING TO THREATEN THE CLUB OWNER AND ATTENDEES!!! I'M SUCH A HERO AND A GREAT ACTIVIST, GO ME!!!")..
ANTIFA

Image

User avatar
Wormfood
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:09 pm
Location: Glenroy, Australia
Contact:

Post by Wormfood » Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:23 pm

I haven't kept up with Antifa in Europe lately and don't know just how evil and anti-"freedom of speech" they're supposed to be, but my understanding of European history is that, considering it was the cradle of actual fascism, it's not surprising there'd be a few people a little over-eager to ensure it doesn't happen again.
What exactly are Antifa's crimes against European dissent, that they need to be so cleverly satirised?

RJMyato
Posts: 4652
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:14 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Post by RJMyato » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:08 pm

everything D said (edit: and raytownian too!) is spot on and consistent with his speech and behavior as I observed it over the course of the NNN tour. I'm kind of a combative prick sometimes but he's the real deal as far as living your philosophy goes.


that said, if you think neo-Nazis are somehow legitimately in "dissent" of anything and Antifa is somehow "oppressing their free speech" or whatever, you have no idea what you're talking about, and that image is pure, straight-up Nazi apologism and nothing else. painting neo-Nazis as somehow legitimate rebels out there fighting the good fight in opposition to those big oppressive liberal meanies is tantamount to supporting them. they literally want to be able to legally murder people of other races, there's nothing honorable or respectable about these people.



I'd like to redirect everyone to ASTRAL SOCIAL CLUB's quote I posted earlier in this thread:
Astral Social Club wrote:(our part of west yorkshire is a gritty place to live at times, but suits me just fine - ugly metropolis one way, vast looming hills + wilderness the other ... hotbed of BNP rightwing extremism too - i've had to literally chase those bastards from my street when they were leafleting pre-election a few yrs back ... they do pretty well around these parts, which is partly why my hackles are raised when those twats bleat on about fascism like it's some sort of ironic hipster joke)

RJMyato
Posts: 4652
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:14 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Post by RJMyato » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:18 pm

bonus hatemail:

someone I know who was attempting to set up a trade with the guy from Violent Noise Atrocities (Churner I guess?) and this was the response he got:
After looking at your myspace profile...i see you must be close friends with RJ Myato...i personally think the guy is about as worthless as a human can get....so i will pass on any trades.
sorry, Dan

couldn't be funnier, honestly. good to know all the shit people talk is TRUE and the noise scene really is all about how you know and what names you attach yourself to.

even funnier because, I mean, I could understand if you think I'm super annoying maybe, but I don't really have any horrible habits or anything that people should be boycotting my FRIENDS...?

like I'm not involved in any kind of insanely negative shit that trading with someone who put out my tape is going to make the world worse off, wheras people will readily give actual cash money to people who are directly responsible for violence and oppression against others....

User avatar
Rev Bucky
Posts: 1697
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:08 pm
Location: Medford OR
Contact:

Post by Rev Bucky » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:37 pm

Wowsers, guilt by association with RJMyato, who knew you had that much power? That type of reaction is part of what makes me so sad about the stupidity of racists. Because of their hatred, they deny themselves and others, and really isn't that what racism is all about? To deny people the ability to be themselves.

Nobody really likes a stereotype, or a person who acts stereotypically, I know I don't. But that's why I try not to stereotype people according to color, or race, or sexuality, or whatever. Because to me, those stereotypes are so limiting, and that's why I don't like racists, or sterotypes, because it doesn't allow us to look at people as individuals, nor does it even allow for individuality. Instead, it imposes some artificially derived means of control, a self imposed and yet a socially supported ignorance, and I really despise people who can't see through the blinders they have placed on them by someone elses ignorance or need for control.

Judge people by who they are, and how they are, not skin color, or who they orgasm with, or which God they choose to (or not to) worship. Judge people by how they treat you, and how they are to you, not by some bullshit accident of being born.

My sister told me about a black guy she knew, who wouldn't eat watermelon, or fried chicken in public, even though he liked them, because he wasn't going to give any racist the satisfaction. The guy who refused to do a trade with RJs bud reminded me of that, and is kind of the point of this post.

They are denying themselves something that they enjoy. They are losing because of what others think, or may think about them, because of that blind ignorant, moronic structure that says this is what is or what should be. That's so sad, that they are denying themselves pleasure, denying their own tastes and association with their world because of the thoughts and actions of others.

It's like what I call the "what will the neighbors think" syndrome. I have seen so many people deny themselves new thoughts, new feelings, and new expierences, because they are so worried about what others will think of them. And it also makes me think of the old Dr Seuss quote:
Those who matter, don't mind, and those who mind, don't matter.
C'mon motherfuckers, it's YOUR life, don't let other people tell you what you can't do with it. Opening your eyes and your mind to the world around you can only benifit you. Don't deny yourself something, or try to enforce your limitations on others, and we will all be better for it, and while that sounds sweet and Pollyanna, it's actually greedy and self serving, as it benifits YOU!! So take the world for all the expierences you can, good and bad, live and learn, and live and let live. It not only doesn't cost you anything, you gain from it!

User avatar
red soundwave
Posts: 2453
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:43 pm
Location: poon town
Contact:

Post by red soundwave » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:13 pm

Sonic Architect wrote:Ithe reality is that more often than not, kicking the shit out of oppressive people does not make a bell go off and make they say "wow, fuck, I was a real dick."
NOBODY gives a rats ass about neo-nazis, or their fake ass poser bros, beat the entire shit out of them, if theyre crippled, well...

anecdote... i had a problem with heroin dealers/junkys back a while ago in PDX, called the police to help deal wit it... the nice police man told me that I could be prosecuted for harassment if i called on them again...BUT, he also said some shit that made it clear that if i went out and kicked the shit out of said fuckheads, that probably nothing would happen to me even if dude called the police... guess what happened... THATS FUCKING RIGHT... dude wasnt a problem ever again...just sayin...
peace, love, happiness

Guest

Post by Guest » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:58 pm

red soundwave wrote:anecdote... i had a problem with heroin dealers/junkys back a while ago in PDX, called the police to help deal wit it... the nice police man told me that I could be prosecuted for harassment if i called on them again...BUT, he also said some shit that made it clear that if i went out and kicked the shit out of said fuckheads, that probably nothing would happen to me even if dude called the police... guess what happened... THATS FUCKING RIGHT... dude wasnt a problem ever again...just sayin...
The difference being that a dealer/junky probably won't be able to get a decent lawyer willing to defend them since what they were doing was illegal yet a racist being beat up just for saying or wearing something will probably be able to get a good lawyer paid for by some WP organization to defend them on a freedom of speech defense. Just saying the violent approach can often backfire no matter how noble the cause.

This page of posts made me think of "White Punks on Hope" by Crass: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skyzWf-qIa0

User avatar
red soundwave
Posts: 2453
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:43 pm
Location: poon town
Contact:

Post by red soundwave » Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:24 pm

FIRE IN THE HEAD wrote:a racist being beat up just for saying or wearing something will probably be able to get a good lawyer paid for by some WP organization
maybe... but in my experience(considerable), these things can go down just right if you want them to... just sayin...
peace, love, happiness

User avatar
Wormfood
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:09 pm
Location: Glenroy, Australia
Contact:

Post by Wormfood » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:14 pm

FIRE IN THE HEAD wrote: The difference being that a dealer/junky probably won't be able to get a decent lawyer willing to defend them since what they were doing was illegal yet a racist being beat up just for saying or wearing something will probably be able to get a good lawyer paid for by some WP organization to defend them on a freedom of speech defense. Just saying the violent approach can often backfire no matter how noble the cause.
Drawing a long bow there. A serious nazi dick on the street is more likely to want some kind of violent revenge then get a lawyer, and doesn't necessarily have to be connected to some group with the wherewithal to afford one. From what I've observed, neo nazis, white supremacists, etc., end up in prison all the time. In the US I understand they have quite a nation-wide organisation in gaol. So clearly, whatever lawyers they're hiring aren't very good or just couldn't be stuffed.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 9 guests