How To People Feel about the fact that it seems every day

Talk about noise music. Reviews, rants, whatever.

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nkondi
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Post by nkondi » Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:42 pm

probably should have been a little more specific in my hatered on getting burned on time...in the fact that the releases that i am talking about were wankery or crap, or a little of column a and b...either way, if i trade im hoping to get something good...course i may diagree with anyone here what is good or what isnt...but then that boils down to preference...

obscurica
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Re: length

Post by obscurica » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:13 pm

Zeno Marx wrote:As for vinyl, Metal Machine Music and Hymnen come to mind. Long experimental albums aren't the advent of the CD age.
Hymnen, now THERE'S an album. One of the few looong releases that I can listen to in one sitting and wish it weren't over when it ends.

Anyways, I don't think of long noise CD's as necessarily requiring a long, uninterrupted focus of attention. (I'm not actually addressing you here Zeno.. just a general statement.) Instead think of them as compilations that you can digest in small parts if necessary. I see it as partly an economy and value issue. Assuming of course, all 60+ minutes are worthwhile music.. nobody likes a wanker. So quality notwithstanding, take a look at your collections.. anybody elses' shelves weighted down with music, in danger of ripping the brackets out of the studs? Yeah, I thought so. I don't see any reason not to save up your good tracks until you've got 60-80 minutes worth, and put 'em all on one disc.

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T_R_A_I_L_S
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Post by T_R_A_I_L_S » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:22 pm

i dunno -i think a c-20 is often an appropriate length for a release as long as it's @ least 15 mins......i'm not a huge fan of 7 inches though. especially for noise- not to say i don't buy them from time to time but they don't get much play unless they land themselves on a good flowing mixtape......best 7" ever
= ROBOT HAS WEREWOLF HAND love and destruction ep!! total playtime.

Dada Drumming
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Post by Dada Drumming » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:12 pm

I'll gladly pay whatever the price is for something I really want by an artist I like. Length isn't even an issue. I'm funny that way. Hell, I just paid $20 recently for the vinyl version of the Unsane "Blood Run" release at their show because I knew it was supporting a band that I love and that's what matters. No complaining. Just support. It goes a long way.

Now to the case at hand: No one wants to pay $5-$6 for a cd or a tape every 2 or 3 weeks or whatever by artists who just pump the shit out like it's water from the well, and sounds like it also once you pop it in. Now, don't get me wrong, you can do this all year long for all I care. But I can guarantee 95% is going to be utterly worthless. Just the facts folks. There will probably be a rough gem in all of that recording you just did and released on 43 different labels in the last 2.5 months. And this is my point: That gem, the one, should be worked on, and refined, and gone over, and kicked around, and refined some more until you have a piece of work that 15 years from now people will still be talking about. That seems to be a lost art. The truly great ones have taken the time to put out a quality sound product. And it shows. So, to summarize; Sure, release everything you record, but, I can guarantee you will be forgotten. I want to remember the best. Like these Facialmess tracks I just found on a cd-r I had forgotten about. I downloaded them like 4-5 years ago from mp3.com. Still fucking rock solid. This is what I'm talking about.

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Zeno Marx
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Post by Zeno Marx » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:27 pm

Dada Drumming wrote:I want to remember the best. Like these Facialmess tracks I just found on a cd-r I had forgotten about. I downloaded them like 4-5 years ago from mp3.com. Still fucking rock solid. This is what I'm talking about.
Did you get a Facialmess/Hermit C-60 from me? If so, what did you think? Stimbox and I were discussing his early era, and I'm still looking for material (from any artist) in that realm.

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xdugef
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Post by xdugef » Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:37 pm

Could it be that the problem is that too many people that like to listen to noise also want to make it?

philosophyshop
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Post by philosophyshop » Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:59 pm

i agree with the idea of the internet creating releases. part of making noise is playing it live and taking it to the stage, which most people don't do. as for length of releases, i am from the lp era, where 40 minutes is about right for me,
however, i can listen to well done harsh noise for hours on end.

one of my complaints about noise is the lack of proper reviews and criticism.
the theory of "anything goes" isn't a good thing. it has been proven throughout history that it doesn't work.
no remorse

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Re: noise

Post by NOISEassault » Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:04 pm

philosophyshop wrote:the theory of "anything goes" isn't a good thing. it has been proven throughout history that it doesn't work.
or perhaps that people more often than not lack the knack for doing it worth a damn

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Post by obscurica » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:55 pm

Y'all are wacked on the objective quality thing. What constitutes "good noise"? Or what is correct to release? In the final analysis, it always boils down to "If you like it, it rocks". "If you hate it, it sucks". One man's shit is another's caviar.

And in defense of those who release every damn note they play or rehearse, may you cast the first stone if you've never:
* Obsessed with a band or artist to the point where you must own everything they've ever done
* Where you're interested enough to check out even their lesser works
* Where everything they do is worth owning in your opinion, in the interest of completism.

So my opinion is, if you've got musical diarrhea, go for it. The ultimate judge of whether its worth a damn is you. Who are you recording for, anyways? Yourself, I hope. If someone else happens to like it, well hoo-fuckin'-ray. And somewhere down the line, in the unlikely event that someone should obsess on your little project to the point that they simply must hear every squeak, grunt and fart you emit, then you've won the number-one fan jackpot.

Obscurica Diarrhea Records
http://www.obscurica.com/

Dada Drumming
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Post by Dada Drumming » Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:30 am

Who are you recording for, anyways? Yourself, I hope.
Here is where your argument runs into problems:

I agree, you should indeed record for yourself. But, when you release something to the world, either via your own imprint, or another label, you've given up the pre-supposition of it "just being for yourself". Now it's public property in the form of sales, trades, etc. If it was just for yourself, then why are you releasing it? To have the most releases ever of stuff that was "just for yourself"? No, that is where the line breaks down. If indeed you (you as in the whole, not a person in general) like what you have done in your recording, and you truly believe that it doesn't stand any work and can hold it's own weight against some of the more accomplished artists, then you should start sending out demos and hope for some good feedback and a possible release. If that fails, then yes, please release it yourself and market the hell out of it. If it's THAT good, it'll get noticed either way. But, unless you are Mozart or Vivaldi and can pop off a Sonata over morning tea that will still be adored 900 years later, all you are doing is just making checkmarks on your "releases this month" list. There has to be a higher standard. The really good bands/artists, and I'm speaking in general terms musically, only release their best stuff. Sometimes you'll go a year or so between releases, sometimes not. But there is always a little time to breathe and live with the music for a while before the next onslaught. Noise, as with other styles and types of music, is not temporal. It should be treated with the respect it deserves as a medium by the people who create it. Exacting a higher level of artistry from themselves in the process.

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Post by Guest » Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:59 am

i dunno gerg... i don't buy the whole only release masterpieces thing.

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xdugef
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Post by xdugef » Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:14 pm

stimbox wrote:i dunno gerg... i don't buy the whole only release masterpieces thing.
How does one know it's masterpiece until others have heard it.. or what's beauty without ugliness or vica versa?

These days given the ease of allowing buyers to preview music with MP3's I unlikely to buy from a band I have never heard of unless I can hear a bit of what I'm going to get.. it's for the buyer/listener to determine what's a masterpiece.. Releases labeled as masterpieces by the creator damn well be good otherwise come off as really prentenious.

I guess the complaint is similar to how hip hop acts on soundclick spam everybodies message boards with announcment about how fecking great their new thing is. Rap being more about marketing more than anything else this is not a surprise but annoying none the less.

The irony being a complaint about the "noise" of too many releases coming from a purveyor of noise. Anyway I don't think this issue is isolated to noise .. there's ten zillion people making stuff these days and thanks to the internet anybody can broadcast their doings.

Blame the internet.. it's natural for people to want others to know that they've done something but the internet is so efficient and cheap that it has caused all sorts of modern problems like spam. The pandora's box has been opened and who can put the lid back on. Pesimistically it is the elistest that yearns to put the lid back on.. noise used to be very elite and underground and really in the last several years it has become much less so.

I suppose if you really want to stay elite release everything on vinyl and don't advertise on the web or provide mp3's. This will insure as few people as possible will hear your noodlings... plus only the rich or someone who truly believes their stuff is good will beable to forge ahead and afford to put out work under those conditions.

Dada Drumming
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Post by Dada Drumming » Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:43 pm

Stim;

I know what you are saying. No, I'm not advocating the release of only "masterpieces". It would be impossible, and there would only be maybe 10 things I can think of that would have been released! I'm just allowing the idea for a bit more restraint on the part of artists and people who put stuff out. Now, anyone can put whatever they want out. Very true indeed. But, being just a bit more critical about what you do is not such a bad thing. It creates a better overall love machine.

And I'm definitely not advocating elitism. Please don't confuse a high standard with elitism. These two things do not look like one another. Although it's easy to put them in the same basket. One tastes great, the other is rotten to the core.

Druiid
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Post by Druiid » Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:24 pm

xxxx
Last edited by Druiid on Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Zeno Marx
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Post by Zeno Marx » Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:16 pm

I'll take two of both the high standard and the elitism. They both feed into evolution and change.

I won't name names, but one of my favorite artists right now is on the verge of proliferation. They need to tell a few labels "NO" so they can take a break for a while.

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