Historical recollection of noise listening

Talk about noise music. Reviews, rants, whatever.

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jliat
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Re: Historical recollection of noise listening

Post by jliat » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:42 am

"so you are saying "Darpa" is "Academia""

"By collaborating with academic, industry, and government partners, DARPA formulates and executes research and development projects to expand the frontiers of technology and science, often beyond immediate U.S. military requirements."

Seems so...

But also... the WWW ...

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WhiteWarlock
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Re: Historical recollection of noise listening

Post by WhiteWarlock » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:09 am

Image
had that record in the old magnavox console stereo before there was any "sex pistols" or "punk"
btw it was way better than MC5
didn't hear "raw power" until way later
not the italian guys.... though openned show for them... and they crashed at the house

we didn't need any god damned Stockhausen or Xenaikis or Cage
in fact they were of absolutely no consequence or influence
the more we gravitated towards "Academia"
pandering for recognition & adoration from the status quo system
the more "Raw Power" is completely lost
you can be a maestro of mundane mediocrity if you want
don't try being an "Art Cop"
especially with "Noise"

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jliat
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Re: Historical recollection of noise listening

Post by jliat » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:11 am

Who is playing the art cop?

"Cage studied with Schoenberg in California: first at USC and then at UCLA,"

"From 1947 to 1951, Stockhausen studied music pedagogy and piano at the Hochschule für Musik Köln (Cologne Conservatory of Music) and musicology, philosophy, and Germanics at the University of Cologne."

"Subsequently, Eno studied with cybernetic theorist Roy Ascott on the Groundcourse at the art school at Ipswich Civic College before going onto Winchester School of Art, from which he graduated in 1969."

"He later attended Tamagawa University to study fine art, at which he majored in painting and art theory. While at university, he became interested in the ideas of dada and surrealism and also studied Butoh dance. At Tamagawa, he learned of Kurt Schwitters' Merz, or art made from rubbish, including Schwitters' Merzbau (meaning Merz building, German pronunciation: [ˈmɛʁtsˌbaʊ̯]), which is the source of the name Merzbow."



The seeds of Iggy Pop's stage persona were sown when he saw The Doors perform in 1967 at the University of Michigan and was amazed by the stage antics and antagonism displayed by singer Jim Morrison.

A voracious reader from an early age, Morrison was particularly inspired by the writings of several philosophers and poets. He was influenced by Friedrich Nietzsche, whose views on aesthetics, morality, and the Apollonian and Dionysian duality would appear in his conversation, poetry and songs. Some of his formative influences were Plutarch's Parallel Lives and the works of the French Symbolist poet Arthur Rimbaud, whose style would later influence the form of Morrison's short prose poems. He was also influenced by William S. Burroughs, Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, Louis Ferdinand Celine, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Charles Baudelaire, Molière, Franz Kafka, Albert Camus, Honoré de Balzac and Jean Cocteau, along with most of the French existentialist philosophers.... In January 1964, Morrison moved to Los Angeles to attend the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA).....

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WhiteWarlock
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Re: Historical recollection of noise listening

Post by WhiteWarlock » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:25 am

yes and all are rather inconsequential versus the new kid with desire for making noise records
maybe that is their advantage
you have no freedom of speech in UK anymore on the internet
now be a good automaton and keep making mundane posts


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WhiteWarlock
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Re: Historical recollection of noise listening

Post by WhiteWarlock » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:43 am

you also fail noticing anything odd about "Academia" anymore...
or your UK Nation
like it being usurped
politically correct agenda
hellbent on silencing free speech using various methods
"safe spaces"
"indoctrination"
pushing the multikult & dieversity
creating indentured debt slaves to the system
yet mundane experimental/modular/"Noise" is completely acceptable
why is that?

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jliat
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Re: Historical recollection of noise listening

Post by jliat » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:27 pm

You appear to have very little actual knowledge of what is happening in the UK.


But my point was I was questioning dissing academia despite actual evidence to the contrary regarding noise and any breaking out of the dogmatic images of the likes of pop stars tin pan alley - "subversive" T.M. rock stars who now sell insurance (iggy!) and TV programs which show American colonialism in a good light.

"we didn't need any god damned Stockhausen or Xenaikis or Cage
in fact they were of absolutely no consequence or influence"


Who is this "We" ? You might have no need... however you can only maintain this, and the idea of challenging stuff, because the idea of challenging stuff has become the new dogma.

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melkobukva
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Re: Historical recollection of noise listening

Post by melkobukva » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:46 pm

Why "noise academics" suck: an essay.

There are people who produce and publish records, or set up shows, or publish zines etc., i.e. do some work related to a music genre. There are also people who consume the results of said work by listening to records, attending shows, reading zines. The makers are judged by other makers and the consumers based on the quality of their work. Eventually this results in some kind of reputation-based order which includes "genre legends", and "nobodies", and "laughing stock", and all sorts of people in between. So, here's this community of people involved in things that are of very little interest and significance for people outside this community. For an average joe they are music nerds who are weird losers at best and dangerous psychos at worst.

Then there's academia. The community of people who, at least in principle, are supposed to investigate some aspects of the world and come up with new knowledge and ideas that bear potential significance for people outside the academic community. In reality, 99,9% of what academics do has no practical relevance at all, but the remaining 0,1% accounts for all the computers, internets, weapons of mass destruction, and other nice things we have. This is why academics are considered smart and important folks who know better than average joe, at least when it comes to their respective fields.

There are also people with opinions about "noise music" who want to share them. Some of those people also happen to belong to academic institutions. And some of those choose to present their opinions on "noise music" as academic work. The latter is a bad thing to do.

First, this is a bad thing to do as an academic. Researchers recieve their benefits - both in terms of money and social standing - because they are supposed to do something that potentially profits society as a whole. "Noise music" is a subject of very little interest and significance for people outside the noise audience. Most importantly, it's of very little interest and significance for other academics. Research is collective work, it's not enough to simply publish stuff, your peers have to actually read it, find value, incorporate your ideas in their work. This is why metrics such as h-index index and impact factor exist (they don't work, but that's another story). "Noise music" is simply too small to merit separate scientific investigation. People who publish essays about nasty-sounding music nobody listens to as "research papers" reap all the benefits of academia but contribute nothing. This is parasitic behavior.

Second, this is a bad thing to do as a noise listener. Noise listeners are the only real audience for opinions about "noise music". Nobody else cares. It is very easy to reach this audience. One could post on a forum, or a blog, or make a zine, or a podcast. Then you'll be judged based on the quality of your work and eventually take your place in the reputation-based order - first as a "nobody", then as a "laughing stock", or a "genre legend", or, more likely, something in between. But "noise academics" eschew this path. Instead, they publish in academic journals not intended for music nerds and often inaccessible, and shield themselves from the criticism of noise joes with authority borrowed from academia. Researchers are important folks who know better than average joe, at least when it comes to their respective fields, and all that. If the field is noise music, the "noise academic" is supposedly already an expert and does not have to earn credibility from the noise people like everyone else dealing with the genre. This is douchebag behavior.

"Noise academics" take from "noise music" and from academia, but give back to neither. This is why they suck.

I conclude this essay with a personal anecdote or, as some academics like to call it nowadays, autoethnographic research. Me and my music pals have met such people many times. Most of them were dorks with self-esteem issues who were unable to do music and unable to do proper research, but craved validation, so they tried to turn their hobby into their research field and kill two birds with one stone. Needless to say, they always ended up in the "laughing stock" category. On the other hand, there were also "genre philosophers" who published in zines, and they were well respected and sometimes rather influential, at least in regard to the local scene.

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WhiteWarlock
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Re: Historical recollection of noise listening

Post by WhiteWarlock » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:00 pm


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5251268/l ... ermondsey/
How many stabbings have there been in London this year?

At least 46 people have been fatally stabbed in London since the beginning of the year.

So far in 2018 there have been 1,296 stabbings in London up to the end of April, according to official statistics from the Met Police.

A glut of cocaine flooding the country has been partly blamed for the country's violent crime.

hmmm it must be the cocaine!
Bollocks




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jliat
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Re: Historical recollection of noise listening

Post by jliat » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:29 pm

WhiteWarlock wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:25 am
yes and all are rather inconsequential versus the new kid with desire for making noise records
maybe that is their advantage
...

Which is one idea. Only noise as a genre wouldn't exist or would these new kids be able to produce noise if not - so no not inconsequential, but a consequence of. That is the fact, if you are living in the USA - that is a consequence of certain economic, cultural and historic consequences.

If these kids want to engage in this, they need to ''know' this. There is an alternative, and it resembles the Cargo Cults of the pacific. Where the "kids" make fake aeroplanes and fake runways* as some proto religious act if wanting to being back the gods, "Stockhausen or Xenaikis or Cage" et al.

And certain leaders encourage such 'ignorance' to their own benefit. (maybe move this to Misc?)


*not that its wrong.. And the understanding of the consequences of the history of the genre is no different to the need to understand the consequences of how to wire an IC. You are fond of showing how to do this - correctly, but not 'why'. If the why is 'Raw Power' then why should the how not be also, why shouldn't the likes of moog, rWilliam Shockley etc al. be inconsequential....

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jliat
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Re: Historical recollection of noise listening

Post by jliat » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:49 pm

WhiteWarlock wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:00 pm

At least 46 people have been fatally stabbed in London since the beginning of the year.

So far in 2018 there have been 1,296 stabbings in London up to the end of April, according to official statistics from the Met Police.

A glut of cocaine flooding the country has been partly blamed for the country's violent crime.

hmmm it must be the cocaine!
Bollocks
I'm sorry but this has absolutely nothing to to with your condemnation of academia's debilitating effects on noise. You raise several quite unrelated things, the Powell speech, moped crime in London, and intergang rivalry.. all of which i'd gladly discuss with you on misc. Your sources are unfortunately what is called in the UK the gutter press.

United States of America - rate 5.35 number 17,250


United Kingdom - rate 1.20 number 791


So come to the UK and you are 4 times less likely to be murdered...

Join a drug gang in any major city and that's not unlikely... I suppose if you shout loud enough you think you might be heard - which is true. If you rate Raw Power with youth and Noise as a criteria, then London should b the place to go for REAL NOISE and not pussy N.Y.

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timdrage
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Re: Historical recollection of noise listening

Post by timdrage » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:22 am

London should b the place to go for REAL NOISE
I was at a chiptune night where 4 people got stabbed! In comparison US noise is as WEAK as US noise dude's grasp of UK politics :D

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WhiteWarlock
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Re: Historical recollection of noise listening

Post by WhiteWarlock » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:11 am

You obviously never lived in Chicago Warzones...
such also counts as "influences"
environments & experiences
some of my old "friends/acquaintances " Nationalists in UK were "imprisoned" for online "politics"
organizations "banned" as "terrorists"
"targeted"
"setup"
"deconstructed"
"neutralized"
"lives destroyed"
by UK System
over "free speech"
for daring "Resisting"
for questioning "the official Narrative"
making others see "the Agenda"
stating "the Obvious"
this is not even slightly any exaggeration
so possibly you are the one with no fucking clue
yet just keep pretending that you do
if that makes it easier
keep playing Big Brother and Emmanuel Goldstein
What was it Orwell said on his deathbed?

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Dyecap
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Re: Historical recollection of noise listening

Post by Dyecap » Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:48 pm

Warzones?

I'll wager you've never experienced the real chaos of a real warzone, buddy...

Before your "edit" you mentioned Paul Hickman.
We're talking "WHHITE nationalists" here, no?
NF
NA
BNP
?
In the 80's these cunts were trashing gigs to fk up anyone that looked "different".
Dumb fks full of fear.
About ten years ago some EDL boneheads came marching down my street screaming disrespect and violence at everyone and were trounced.
We are living in interesting times over here for sure but the far right is not the answer to the far left!

SO.

Back on track.
Recording the sound that cymbals make when thrown off the cliffs above Cheddar Gorge was noise to me... way back when...
Too many tourists around to reenact that today though :wall:

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WhiteWarlock
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Re: Historical recollection of noise listening

Post by WhiteWarlock » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:10 pm

You would wager wrong.

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